MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Seems like those races need a better Trait than Vehicle.
I was not aware that vehicles needed quarters, unless you are housing them in the Vehicle Bay. lol
Ship's Troops and Berthing Spaces
- Thread starter ottarrus
- Start date
I was not aware that vehicles needed quarters, unless you are housing them in the Vehicle Bay. lol
mavikfelna
Cosmic Mongoose
Yes, Vehicle is a stupid name for it. But it represents the increase in size they need to fit into a vehicle passenger space and that also gets converted into stateroom space required. An Orca needs a 48 ton stateroom.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Seems like whoever wrote it just didn't want to rewrite everything based on creature size, which is ideally how it should be.
EccentRick
Banded Mongoose
The narrator notes that this platoon actually HASN'T seen the sky for the 6 weeks they've been onboard, but the per-person space question has seemed off to me.
As noted above:
So I'm only focusing on person-space. And I only worked through the 'standard' sizes provided (presumably for Humaniti and other sophonts of similar size). I also have not included other ship locations like Training Facilities - those seems somewhat more analogous to the crews 'job space' tonnage at their duty locations (e.g. engineering).
When smashing various accommodations and notes about crew fatigue due to lack of sufficient common space together my back-of-the-envelope scratch notes on the current rules seem to settle in at 2.5 tons per person of combined cabin and common space for professional crews. I suspect a typical divide is around 1 ton of 'daily common space' plus 1.5 ton for living/sleeping, but that line is easily subject to mix-and-match for degrees of privacy.
What Ottarus seems to be noting is that barracks troop spaces cut that in half to 1.25 tons of cramped living when it generally seems that 0.5 tons is the minimum space for unencumbered stand-up/lie-down and trying to squeeze everything else in the other 0.75 tons.
I'm inclined to suggest the rule-of-thumb for common areas to be 1/4 the space of staterooms should have a floor with a minimum of 0.5 tons of common area provided per person, mostly impacting Barracks from High Guard, but possibly also applicable to SOL Blocks (I don't have that book (yet)). Not a large addition, only an additional 0.25 tons, but having 1.5 tons of space per trooper at least appears to give each shipboard occupant an equal amount non-sleeping "common area" space around the ship.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
I suggest that Marines should get the exact same berthing and space arrangements as the Navy spacehands.
Folks, our ideas about berthing ground troops aboard ships like sardines in a Span can are based on Liberty Ships and other troop transports from War Two. The error here is that the longest voyage for troops on a ship was 6-8 weeks and during that time those troops were allowed time on deck to exercise, work on their equipment, [and this next one is important] and get out of the ship's crew's way while THEY worked on the interior spaces of the ship
This idea that ground troops can be treated simply as cargo is simply nonsense. Troops need room to exercise, train, and maintain equipment just like the spacehands do and spacecraft don't have an 'outside' or 'on deck'. You can't keep troops bottled up six to a stateroom and expect them to be effective when they finally get dropped off to fight.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
In regards to weapons being kept in an armory and BD suits being kept a bay nicknamed 'the morgue'...
Troops aboard still need gym space to work out, an open area for formations [which can be common space when cleared of furnishings], ranges to practice marksmanship or a sophisticated VR suite that allows an entire squad/section to practice at once, room to maintain their armors and other ancillary equipment other than weaponry.
And that's not even getting into the troop unit's vehicles and the maintenance required with them. Or the cargo space for spare parts, etc.
Troops aboard still need gym space to work out, an open area for formations [which can be common space when cleared of furnishings], ranges to practice marksmanship or a sophisticated VR suite that allows an entire squad/section to practice at once, room to maintain their armors and other ancillary equipment other than weaponry.
And that's not even getting into the troop unit's vehicles and the maintenance required with them. Or the cargo space for spare parts, etc.
I don't know if any of the Mongoose Troop Transports are statted out. But I know that the CT Kinunir had 3 squads of Marines on board that each got their own barracks that was about 2 tiles per Marine. There was also a washroom/fresher area for each squad. A Rec room, an Armory, and a galley that all the Marines shared. There was also offices for the Senior NCO, the squad leaders, and the platoon leader. That was all on C deck.
On A deck, they had ready rooms for the 2nd and 3rd squads (apparently 1st squad was overlooked? Or the jump pods were their ready room?) and a Marine Equipment storage.
So it is clear that at some point, the Imperium thought Marines might need some space to operate. Because all of that is space just for the Marines. The Naval personnel had their own facilities.
On A deck, they had ready rooms for the 2nd and 3rd squads (apparently 1st squad was overlooked? Or the jump pods were their ready room?) and a Marine Equipment storage.
So it is clear that at some point, the Imperium thought Marines might need some space to operate. Because all of that is space just for the Marines. The Naval personnel had their own facilities.
2titles = 1dt just like barracks in HG 2022. I think the big issue is that people are ignoring the fact that this is just rack space not living space. Most military barracks in real life run about the same area per person (a bunk bed with a locker for each) this is not living space that’s what common areas are, this is not weapon and gear storage that’s what Armory’s for, and this is not exercise areas that’s what training areas are for. The barracks are for one purpose and only one purpose it’s a place to sleep.
Equipment for embarked troops is kind of a different conversation. The Mercenary rules give the required cargo space for the equipment for various types of troops. It also talks about the readiness element as well (and not defrosting your platoon and sending them right into combat), as do the various ship transport modules for troops in Specialist Forces.
EccentRick
Banded Mongoose
Those are not activities optimally done with "Common area", they're the job-space locations I side-stepped: Training Facilities for the marksmanship and sparring, Hangers or docking spaces for the vehicles, etc.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Difference between having a security contingent onboard, and transporting troops for delivery.
In most cases, it doesn't matter, since the numbers are limited by life support, and life support is determined by the accommodations that are installed.
In most cases, it doesn't matter, since the numbers are limited by life support, and life support is determined by the accommodations that are installed.
MonsterX
Emperor Mongoose
If that Orca gets its own swimming pool, so should I!
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Unrefined fuel tank.
How long is a particular contingent aboard. Since they don't conduct shipboard operations, familiarity with a specific vessel is not relevant and there is no adverse impact in them having short tours. They could be rotated in/out on a garrison system, spend a week in jump and then deploy. After deployment they are picked up and delivered back to a garrison system.
To my mind barracks are bunks, ablutions and some messing facilities. 1DTon per marine is still 14 cubic metres. That might appear cramped, but sounds positively voluminous compared to some service accommodation I have seen. Subs are pretty cramped and you also don't get to go on deck with them. At least star ships can rotate crews out each time they enter a system, many of our subs don't get to stop.
Boredom would be the biggest issue, but that is true of anyone during jump. Sensible officers will use this time for sim training etc (which can be pretty compact). Armouries, combat training etc. are different facilities that you might wish to include if you intend for marines to be a permanent contingent. Marines might also commandeer cargo spaces for recreation if they can get away with it, but PT doesn't need lots of space, most Gyms are pretty cramped.
If you spend much of your time in a battlesuit you are not really going to be the claustrophobic type.
Fluffy Bunny Feet
Emperor Mongoose
Fast drug for long distance travel. Things that are intolerable for the long term can be handled for a week (subjective).
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
The problem is that even for a week of sleep, you're gonna see a drop off in the troop's endurance. And no doubt you'd need extensive medical support to transport troops under Fast Drug. No matter what the subjective time for the patient is, they're still gonna need IV fluids and nutrition for a solid week of sleep.
But you know, the side effects of Fast and Slow drug would be a worthwhile discussion all by itself.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
Well, my discussion is specifically about transported troops, not 'ship's troops'.
Transported troops are, yes, 'cargo' in a sense, but they still need to be delivered to the deployment area in condition to fight.
Ship's troops are Marines or PROFORS trained Army troops part of the ship's complement. They're trained in damage control, act as masters-at-arms providing security for the ship, and man gunnery stations aboard some ships. While they are available for deployment at the captain's discretion, such deployments are usually very short term.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I have a pod-based Marine transport. It has training space and an armory, but does use barracks. Thoughts?
Fluffy Bunny Feet
Emperor Mongoose
Fast drug isn't supposed to be sleep. It is supposed to be greatly slowed metabolism so that 1 subjective week would be 60 weeks to non drugged individuals. Nothing says you need ANY medical support. You're able to eat and drink so dehydration is not an issue.
Please cite a source for these issues.
