Ship's Locker: Out of the Closet

So far, I wonder if the thinking on snub pistols is kinda off here. I totally haven't read all 61 pages of comments on this thread, but the fact the snub is a suitable zero-G weapon means it has to have virtually no recoil. The thing is, even a small amount of recoil will move a significant mass, though slowly. The trick is to be able to stay where you are when firing, rather than be hurled like end over end from a shot which comes from a gun aligned off center mass of the person firing, or simply being propelled straight back when aligned with center mass. The only way I can think to prevent this with a conventional firearm is to vent gases out the back in proportion to the energy being put into the projectile. This would be like how a recoilless rifle works on a much smaller scale. A rocket powered round could be created to be launched with a tiny vented charge which would allow it to just clear the barrel and then the projectile would fire its rocket and proceed to target. So venting of gases back toward the firer would effectively offset Newton's Third Law of Motion.

In a revolver recoil mitigation in this way would be kinda complicated to do, but an detachable magazine semi-auto or auto weapon would be much more complicated. There are now other forces to consider. Like the momentum of the slide or bolt coming back to eject the shell would cause the weapon to at lease climb uncontrollably or cause the user to start to tumble or both. You would almost have to have a counter weight mechanism in the gun which was thrust in the opposite direction of the bolt or slide at the same time to offset the momentum of ejecting a spent cartridge. Caseless rounds would solve a part of the problem, but not all of it. You still have to feed a new round into the chamber and you still have to re-cock the firing mechanism. Super lightweight materials would solve a part of the problem or possibly super heavy materials which would absorb some of the energy of the round being fired. Electronic firing rather than percussion firing would help. There are still issues to be resolved. Making a working semi-auto pistol which is suitable for Zero-G would be quite an engineering achievement, a submachinegun with a Zero-G trait would be totally amazing. I can think of a few ways it could be done, but they would be expensive relative to a conventional firearm.

If you don't want to retain the zero-G trait, then why stick with the 10mm low velocity? Even now world governments are testing out more powerful Submachinegun rounds, such as .300 Blackout which was originally developed for a SOCOM replacement for the MP5 and 5.45 X 39mm used in the AKS weapons? Yes, a revolver would use pistol ammo, as would an auto pistol, although the Desert Eagle has proved we might be able to use an intermediate round between pistol ammo and rifle ammo, like a trimmed down .300 Blackout. The Desert Eagle achieves ejection of magnum rounds by using the same ejection mechanism as the M4 rifle. For that matter, why not stick with gauss?
 
The idea is to operate with(in) the tools, or rules, as given.

I thought about the recoilless rifle, but at the moment I'm on slug throwers, not heavy weapons; however, the thing about the recoilless rifle is that you don't want to be behind it when you pull the trigger.

If caseless rounds or electric firing would mitigate felt recoil, it's not mentioned in the rules.

Ideally, you'd want a rocket gun, but it's weakness is that it's damage is minuscule below ten metres, and since in a spaceship setting you're likely looking at ranges below twenty five metres, a snub pistol is probably a better bet.

There are very few features that mitigate recoil in the current ruleset, and it's unclear whether if you gain zero, or subzero, modified recoil it would grant the zero gravity weapon trait.
 
Weapon: Snub Automatic Pistol
Type: Handgun

Component ————— Cost - Weight - Other Factors
Receiver Type: Handgun - Cr175 - 0.8kg - Quickdraw 4
Ammunition Type: Low Recoil Special Purpose — Base Damage: 3D-3
Ammunition Cost: Cr200 per 100 rounds
Base Range: 40m
Base Ammunition Capacity: 10 rounds
Base Capacity Variation -20%
Signature: Physical (normal)
Inaccurate -2
Penetration -1

Mechanism: Fully Automatic — +20% — none — Automatic 3
Advanced Projectile Weapon — +25% — -10% — Range +25%, Physical Signature -1
Receiver Feature: Bullpup — +25% — none — Quickdraw +2
Receiver Feature: Quickdraw — +20% — none — Quickdraw +2, Accuracy +1 (>25m), Inaccurate -1 (<25m)
Receiver Feature: Rugged — +30% — +10% —
Receiver Feature: Vacuumized — +20% — none —
Receiver Feature: High Capacity +20% — +20% — +10% — Ammunition Capacity +20%
Modified Ammunition Capacity: +50% — +50% — +25% — Ammunition Capacity +50%
Receiver Totals ———— Cr1'105.65 - 1.054152kg
Barrel: Assault ———— Cr221.13 - 0.3162456kg - Range -50%, Quickdraw +2
Stock: Stockless ——— Cr0 - 0.0kg — Quickdraw +2, Inaccurate -2 (<25m)
Totals ——————— Cr1'326.78 - 1.3703976kg


Weapon: Snub Automatic Pistol
Type: Handgun

Component ————— Cost - Weight - Other Factors
Receiver Type: Handgun - Cr175 - 0.8kg - Quickdraw 4
Ammunition Type: Low Recoil Special Purpose — Base Damage: 3D-3
Ammunition Cost: Cr200 per 100 rounds
Base Range: 40m
Base Ammunition Capacity: 10 rounds
Base Capacity Variation -20%
Signature: Physical (normal)
Inaccurate -2
Penetration -1

Mechanism: Burst Capable — +10% — none — Automatic 2
Advanced Projectile Weapon — +25% — -10% — Range +25%, Physical Signature -1
Receiver Feature: Bullpup — +25% — none — Quickdraw +2
Receiver Feature: Quickdraw — +20% — none — Quickdraw +2, Accuracy +1 (>25m), Inaccurate -1 (<25m)
Receiver Feature: Rugged — +30% — +10% —
Receiver Feature: Vacuumized — +20% — none —
Receiver Feature: High Capacity +20% — +20% — +10% — Ammunition Capacity +20%
Modified Ammunition Capacity: +50% — +50% — +25% — Ammunition Capacity +50%
Receiver Totals ———— Cr1,013.5125 - 1.089kg
Barrel: Handgun ———— Cr152.026875 - 0.2178kg - Range -80%, Quickdraw +4 15/20
Stock: Stockless ——— Cr0 - 0.0kg — Quickdraw +2, Inaccurate -2 (<25m)
Totals ——————— Cr1,165.539375 - 1.3068kg
 
Snubbed: Solomani Space Service Standard Sidearm

1. These aren't for gunslingers, so Quickdraw is less of a factor.

2. So we can remove Bullpup.

3. Quickdraw trait increases accuracy, which does matter.

4. Burst Capable will keep felt recoil down to one, rather than two with Full Automatic.

5. You don't really want to change magazines in the middle of a firefight, so High Capacity, and Modified thereof remain.

6. Vacuumized, considering the likely environment.

7. I don't think Advanced Projectile Weapon is needed.

8. Ammunition is compatible regardless, so interchangeable with the Officer's Revolver.

9. And twenty five percent increased range at base forty metres probably not worth it.
 
The idea is to operate with(in) the tools, or rules, as given.

I thought about the recoilless rifle, but at the moment I'm on slug throwers, not heavy weapons; however, the thing about the recoilless rifle is that you don't want to be behind it when you pull the trigger.

If caseless rounds or electric firing would mitigate felt recoil, it's not mentioned in the rules.

Ideally, you'd want a rocket gun, but it's weakness is that it's damage is minuscule below ten metres, and since in a spaceship setting you're likely looking at ranges below twenty five metres, a snub pistol is probably a better bet.

There are very few features that mitigate recoil in the current ruleset, and it's unclear whether if you gain zero, or subzero, modified recoil it would grant the zero gravity weapon trait.

So, first you figure out how a snub pistol would work with hard science. Then you extrapolate how a more complex snub pistol would work. You're not breaking the rules, you're like being creative. So, like here's how I would do a snub auto-pistol.

It already works in the rules, we just have to decide how it actually works. I would say it uses gas vents around the barrel to prevent the barrel from moving some direction when it fires, leaving the backward recoil to deal with. This can be done by venting some gas to operate the slide and some of the gas to operate a counter slide held in a cylinder over the barrel. When the gun fires a piston counter weight offsets the motion of the slide in the other direction. Ammo feed is through a box magazine, but by venting more gas upward at the end of the barrel, the minimal motion of the new round going up is offset. Everything is happening fast enough that you could, through careful engineering make everything work to keep the gun in place pretty much.

So then, a submachinegun would incorporate all the stuff we put in the auto-pistol on a bigger scale and allow it to just do it over and over. So, you look at the stats for a heavy revolver and decide how much less damage a snub pistol does. Then you scale down standard submachinegun damage down the same amount. So like if the snub revolver does 20% less damage, then the submachinegun does 20% less damage or even 30% less damage since you're using the gas to compensate for recoil and muzzle climb. I would make the fire rate of the submachinegun less than a standard submachinegun because the snub version is like a LOT more complex. You're the referee. Make stuff up if you have to. You don't have to totally follow the rules. If you can make it make sense, you can totally do it. The rules don't have to explain everything.
 
I made a modified stun-gun that had an extra die of damage but could only fire twice before being reloaded, like a double barreled shotgun. It actually looked like a shotgun and the shells would release "stun energy". The stocks were polished wood and the action had silver inlay. The barrels were hollow and had to be cleaned after being used. It was more steampunk than science but the players liked them!
 
As far as I know, the snub revolver doesn't have a slide, which sort of indicates that feature doesn't make a difference.




Maybe for the Officer's Revolver.
 
There are two aspects in the rules to consider:

1. Zeroing recoil doesn't grant the zero gravity weapon trait.

2. Going over the recoil buffer doesn't seem to remove the zero gravity weapon trait.
 
Weapon: Solomani Space Service Standard Sidearm
Type: Handgun

Component ————— Cost - Weight - Other Factors
Receiver Type: Handgun - Cr175 - 0.8kg - Quickdraw 4
Ammunition Type: Low Recoil Special Purpose — Base Damage: 3D-3
Ammunition Cost: Cr200 per 100 rounds
Base Range: 40m
Base Ammunition Capacity: 10 rounds
Base Capacity Variation -20%
Signature: Physical (normal)
Inaccurate -2
Penetration -1

Mechanism: Burst Capable — +10% — none — Automatic 2
Receiver Feature: Quickdraw — +20% — none — Quickdraw +2, Accuracy +1 (>25m), Inaccurate -1 (<25m)
Receiver Feature: Vacuumized — +20% — none —
Receiver Feature: High Capacity +20% — +20% — +10% — Ammunition Capacity +20%
Modified Ammunition Capacity: +50% — +50% — +25% — Ammunition Capacity +50%
Receiver Totals ———— Cr498.96 - 1.1kg
Barrel: Handgun ———— Cr74.844 - 0.22kg - Range -80%, Quickdraw +4
Stock: Stockless ——— Cr0 - 0.0kg — Quickdraw +2, Inaccurate -2 (<25m)
Totals ——————— Cr573.804 - 1.32kg
 
SOLOMANI SPACE SERVICE STANDARD SIDEARM

The Confederation Navy has a need for a simple self defence firearm for personnel in airless and/or microgravity environments, that didn't require the sophistication of the Snub Assault Weapon, nor be a danger to the user and his immediate circle.

It has since it's introduction become the standard sidearm for close quarters combat by most Confederation military and paramilitary Services, while not inexpensive, is three times cheaper than the Snub Assault weapon, and gives a sufficient edge in close combat.


Weapon ———————————— TL — Range ————— Damage — Kg — Cost —— Magazine — Magazine Cost — Quickdraw — Traits
Solomani Space Service Standard Sidearm — 5 — 2/8/16/32-64 —— 3D-3 — 1.32 — Cr573.804 — 14 ———— Cr28 ————— 10 —— Automatic 2, Inaccurate -1 (>25m), Inaccurate -5 (<25m), Low Penetration -1, Physical Signature (normal), Zero-G
 
So I'd say that Confederation military doctrine is that once the enemy is within a twenty five metre sphere, assuming that personnel are equipped with their general issue snub sidearm, you let loose a hailstorm of lethargic ten millimetre bullets.

The Marine Assault Carbine Nine creates a wall of snub bullets, though in both cases, their inherent (better) accuracy at close range and semi automatic or burst fire selection, makes them ideal in hostage situations, or scenarios requiring some surgical precision.

The primary difference would be ammunition, the MAC/Nine uses caseless rounds, while the Solomani Space Service Standard Sidearm and the Confederation Navy Officer's Revolver use generic cased civilian ammunition.
 
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For the more ambitious designers.

And users.
 
Gauche: What Can We Discern

1. Ammunition relatively cheap.

2. Costs the same for all three types of receivers.

3. Doubles cost of standard receivers, and weighs a quarter more.

4. Technological advancement increases speed/effect of ammunition.

5. Batteries included (in the magazine).

6. Damage ignores barrel length.

7. Penetration plus two.

8. Shotgun variant reduces ammunition capacity by three quarters.

9. Ammunition is distinctive for each subvariant, though the shotgun is bundles of small type, at additional damage.
 
Gauche: What Can We Discern

A. Anhur Industries Gee Ay One Hundred is a fully automatic shotgun.

B. If it ignores modified barrel length damage, then it should be three dice plus six, not five as listed.

C. Ammunition capacity would be twenty, minus seventy five percent five, plus twenty percent six, plus thirty percent six point five.

D. Should be automatic/three, not two.

E. It occurs to me that there is modification for ammunition capacity mentioned for the gauss variants.

F. If I had to guess, it's three times for the longarm, and four times for the handgun.
 
Gauche: What Can We Discern

G. Located the appropriate modification, it is three times ammunition capacity.

H. Ammunition capacity would be twenty for assault weapon, times three for gauss sixty, minus seventy five percent fifteen, plus twenty percent eighteen, plus thirty percent twenty three point four.

I. Accuracy is only effected by a fifty percent reduction in range.

J. Does make you wonder if a gauss weapon retains full damage potential with a minimal barrel.

K. Range would be only five metres; short barrel seems more worth it.
 
Gauche: What Can We Discern

L. Seventy five percent reduction for shotgun capacity may indicate bundles of four needles.

M. Modern BB guns usually have a smoothbore barrel with a 4.5 mm (0.177 in) caliber, and use steel balls that measure 4.3–4.4 mm (0.171–0.173 in) in diameter and 0.33–0.35 g (5.1–5.4 gr) in weight, usually zinc- or copper-plated for corrosion resistance.

N. Shave off half a millimetre, at what, fifteen hundred metres per second?

O. Range and accuracy would probably be off; damage, who knows, but penetration would be considerably less.

P. Daisy Gauss Gun.
 
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Paper cuts.
 
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The future looks like extended box magazines, and apparently drum ones.

I suspect that the drum ones are more reliable than our default one.
 
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