Shields with armour

[ottarrus]

OK, so I used to know police who've done 'dynamic entry' on houses with a 'SWAT shield'. What's more, I used to fight as a heavy fighter in the SCA and did so for years. NONE of that makes me an 'expert' by any stretch of the imagination, but I think it's fair to say that I have some knowledge on the subject.

Including shields in a Traveller game is realistic to an extent. But their inclusion means you'll have to include the more granular aspects of combat [flanking, angles of attack, etc.]. If you want to get that nitt-gritty about it, then do your thing. Some referees like that, some go less rules-heavy, some go positively cinematic.

Shields that can absorb/deflect ballistic gunfire are heavy. They use mass to counter the incoming PSI of LOW caliber weaponry. Modern police to NOT expect to have a shield completely block AK or AR fire [in spite of all those crispy-clean product demonstration videos]. What's more they are quite heavy. Running is difficult and exhausting with a shield strapped to one arm, especially when you're in full tactical entry gear with all the threat plates installed.

So, if a referee wishes to include the advantages of shields in their game, I suggest making the DISadvantages part of the game too... Athletics checks to see how long/far you can run in armor, for example, and negative disads for firing your pistol/smg in CQB while you've got 25 lbs. strapped to one arm, etc.

 

[Condottiere]

Riot control is phalanx inspired; or it's a shield wall.

Forced entry expects threats in front of them, with bullet proof armour to deal with anything that could get past the shield.

 

[Annatar Giftbringer]

OK, so I used to know police who've done 'dynamic entry' on houses with a 'SWAT shield'. What's more, I used to fight as a heavy fighter in the SCA and did so for years. NONE of that makes me an 'expert' by any stretch of the imagination, but I think it's fair to say that I have some knowledge on the subject.

Including shields in a Traveller game is realistic to an extent. But their inclusion means you'll have to include the more granular aspects of combat [flanking, angles of attack, etc.]. If you want to get that nitt-gritty about it, then do your thing. Some referees like that, some go less rules-heavy, some go positively cinematic.

Shields that can absorb/deflect ballistic gunfire are heavy. They use mass to counter the incoming PSI of LOW caliber weaponry. Modern police to NOT expect to have a shield completely block AK or AR fire [in spite of all those crispy-clean product demonstration videos]. What's more they are quite heavy. Running is difficult and exhausting with a shield strapped to one arm, especially when you're in full tactical entry gear with all the threat plates installed.

So, if a referee wishes to include the advantages of shields in their game, I suggest making the DISadvantages part of the game too... Athletics checks to see how long/far you can run in armor, for example, and negative disads for firing your pistol/smg in CQB while you've got 25 lbs. strapped to one arm, etc.

Hmm, how about having every “combat move” count as a melee attack, for fatigue purposes? Perhaps ranged attacked as well, owing to the need to brace both gun and shield?

 

[ottarrus]

Riot control is phalanx inspired; or it's a shield wall.

Forced entry expects threats in front of them, with bullet proof armour to deal with anything that could get past the shield.

Every SCA fighter looking at riot footage, ever....

 

[ottarrus]

Hmm, how about having every “combat move” count as a melee attack, for fatigue purposes? Perhaps ranged attacked as well, owing to the need to brace both gun and shield?

That's not a bad idea, but I'd caution against doing too much. You want the use of a shield to have a price, but one that's payable by the PC. If you get too punitive with it, combat becomes more of a PCs vs Refs thing and that's unhealthy for the game.
It's also germane to note that the bad guys are clever too. Combat tricks apply to all parties equally and the players can often find themselves facing their own ideas in fights!

 

[Condottiere]

You could gravitate the shield.

It becomes a mobile barrier.

 

[ottarrus]

You could gravitate the shield.

It becomes a mobile barrier.

I don't believe that there are gravitic modules and power systems small enough to mount on a shield. There might be, but they'd be damned expensive. And even then, as the referee I'd require the PC to use an action per facing to move the shield.

 

[Arkathan]

I don't believe that there are gravitic modules and power systems small enough to mount on a shield. There might be, but they'd be damned expensive. And even then, as the referee I'd require the PC to use an action per facing to move the shield.

Expensive? Yes, but in the CSC23, pg 23, you have a TL 12 Grav Assist that masses 4kg and carries 500kg @ 100kph cruising speed for 110,000 CR.
Now scale that down to no forward propulsion and makes the shield "buoyantly neutral" with respect to gravity.
Still has mass, so I agree with an action to change facing.

 

[Sigtrygg]

There are now - check out the Robots book.

In point of fact you could build your shield as a grav mobile robot.

 

[Condottiere]

I sort of remember in Almost Human, the police officers used their robot assistants as shields during firefights.

 

[AdamWillow]

Hijacking a thread

Rules:
A Traveller using a standard shield increases their effective Melee skill by +1 when parrying.

Situation:
In one hand a bladed weapon in the other shield. Traveller has melee blade 0, also has melee blade bludgeon 1. So, when parrying his effective melee skill is 0+1 (because he has a blade in his hand) or 1+1 (because he knows how to "melee")?

What if he only wields a shield and nothing in his second hand? Or a pistol? Which skill does he use?

 

[Reisender]

Hijacking a thread

Rules:
A Traveller using a standard shield increases their effective Melee skill by +1 when parrying.

Situation:
In one hand a bladed weapon in the other shield. Traveller has melee blade 0, also has melee blade bludgeon 1. So, when parrying his effective melee skill is 0+1 (because he has a blade in his hand) or 1+1 (because he knows how to "melee")?

What if he only wields a shield and nothing in his second hand? Or a pistol? Which skill does he use?

Core Rulebook(2020, p 117):

1. Shield + Blade weapon -> Melee 0 + 1 = Melee 1 for parrying
2. Shield + Bludgeon weapon -> Melee(Bludgeon) 1 + 1 = Melee 2 for parrying, you are parrying with the shield and the Bludgeon weapon
3. Shield + Pistol -> Melee 0 + 1 = Melee 1 for parrying - Note that Pistol is not a melee weapon and has no Melee skill associated with it though with referees permission may be used as Improvised melee weapon with Melee(Bludgeon) or Melee(Unarmed) skill.
4. Shield alone = Melee 0 + 1 = Melee 1 for parrying
5. No Melee skill and shield = Melee 1 for parrying (see 2. rule for shields)

Yes, it apparently makes no difference if you have Melee 0 or no Melee skill when parrying with a shield.
Btw. there is no Melee(Blade) 0, this would be just Melee 0 with no specialization and would be used for all melee weapons unless covered by a specialization.

Central Supply Catalogue(2016, p 106):

The CSC(2016) allows shields to be used as Bludgeon weapons. That means for your examples that Melee(Bludgeon) would be the effective skill making parrying Melee 2.

Edit: Now thinking about it the Core Rulebook(2020) left it to the referee to specify which weapons are Blade-, Bludgeon- and Unarmed weapons. So you could have assigned the Shield to Bludgeon weapons in it already.

 

[Shadowblayde99]

I'm looking at the CSC 2023 update pages 140 and 141. Looks like all shields give +8 protection (melee or ranged attacks or both?) ....... Except the riot shield which only gives +1 protection against ranged attacks. Is that a typo?

 

[Jetrock]

I'm looking at the CSC 2023 update pages 140 and 141. Looks like all shields give +8 protection (melee or ranged attacks or both?) ....... Except the riot shield which only gives +1 protection against ranged attacks. Is that a typo?

Doesn't look like it--the riot shield is a piece of plastic that isn't really intended to stop bullets or heavy melee weapons, but does aid in parrying. Boarding shields and other heavy shields provide protection but don't give a +1 to melee for parrying as they aren't light enough to maneuver, just to be a barricade against melee or ranged attacks.

 

[Geir]

I'm looking at the CSC 2023 update pages 140 and 141. Looks like all shields give +8 protection (melee or ranged attacks or both?) ....... Except the riot shield which only gives +1 protection against ranged attacks. Is that a typo?

It is as intended. I checked the primary materials (36 years after getting a History degree and I'm finally able to use that in a sentence) and it's +1 throughout.

 

[Arkathan]

The riot shields we had were heavy plastic, and so useless against ballistics.
They were also lined with conductive strips. If a push won't do to make them move back, then 50K volts will.

 

[AdamWillow]

What about boarding shield/expandable shield and protection?
It can not be used for parrying but it grants +8 protection right?
So when in melee anyone who attacks wielder of boarding shield must overcome additional +8 protection or it doesn't work in melee combat? And if someone is shooting at this person it also grants -2DM to hit? And it cost nothing as having cover is not reaction?

Also, on which Law level shields are forbidden?

 

[k0k0pelli]

What about boarding shield/expandable shield and protection?
It can not be used for parrying but it grants +8 protection right?
So when in melee anyone who attacks wielder of boarding shield must overcome additional +8 protection or it doesn't work in melee combat? And if someone is shooting at this person it also grants -2DM to hit? And it cost nothing as having cover is not reaction?

Also, on which Law level shields are forbidden?

Expandable shield states

it expands on voice or electronic command to become
any size from a buckler to a boarding shield, providing
Protection +8 as cover but it is lightweight enough to
not be considered bulky in that role.

So I would say it can act as a normal shield with bonus to parry (including limitations if buckler sized) or as Protection +8 if expanded to boarding shield size.