Shadows playtest changes
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Stonehorse
Mongoose
CZuschlag said:
My thinking was that 8AD would be ok as the ship only has a Front arc short ranged weapon, would 6AD be better?
The fragile rule is there to make up for the lack of pinning, and to add a bit of character. Also makes it feel like an insect (which the shadows appeared to be), hard on the outside, soft on the inside.
May be we should start a seperate thread for Shadow Skirmish level ship ideas?
A couple of points about merging.
1. The rule says "If two Shadow vessels of the same type (variants are permitted) are in base contact at the end of the Movement Phase, they may merge". Can a third join in by moving into contact with one of the two already merged, or is it limited to exactly two?
2. The speed of the merged pair is half that of one ship. However, they merge at the end of the movement phase, but can break apart at the beginning of the movement phase. Which means that if I read this correctly, this rule can be abused. Ship 1 makes its move; ship 2 moves up to it and merges. Next turn, ship 1 breaks off and moves at full speed, then ship 2 moves at full speed, ends its move next to ship 1, and merges again. I'd suggest either allowing the merged pair to move at the full speed of one ship, or add a restriction that a ship which has broken from a merge can't take part in a merge the same turn.
1. The rule says "If two Shadow vessels of the same type (variants are permitted) are in base contact at the end of the Movement Phase, they may merge". Can a third join in by moving into contact with one of the two already merged, or is it limited to exactly two?
2. The speed of the merged pair is half that of one ship. However, they merge at the end of the movement phase, but can break apart at the beginning of the movement phase. Which means that if I read this correctly, this rule can be abused. Ship 1 makes its move; ship 2 moves up to it and merges. Next turn, ship 1 breaks off and moves at full speed, then ship 2 moves at full speed, ends its move next to ship 1, and merges again. I'd suggest either allowing the merged pair to move at the full speed of one ship, or add a restriction that a ship which has broken from a merge can't take part in a merge the same turn.
Hi all,
good point about merging, maybe we should read "you can merge OR break off at the beggining of the Movement Phase". This would avoid any abuse of the rule.
About shadow skirmish ship I would see a "fleet carrier" with 2 fighters inside designed around a "scout" hull with less shield regen (5/2 or 5/1) stealth 4 or 5 and 4AD of Accurate AP pulse cannon (range 8 ) (No DD).
(of course without scout ability but dodge 5 or 6)
good point about merging, maybe we should read "you can merge OR break off at the beggining of the Movement Phase". This would avoid any abuse of the rule.
About shadow skirmish ship I would see a "fleet carrier" with 2 fighters inside designed around a "scout" hull with less shield regen (5/2 or 5/1) stealth 4 or 5 and 4AD of Accurate AP pulse cannon (range 8 ) (No DD).
(of course without scout ability but dodge 5 or 6)
my first thought is without dispersal tube.
Just wanna have an answer in small engagement and keep a small radius of use as it's only a skirmish.
I was thinking that 1AD of Beam Precise TD would better as this ship should be a fighter/anti-fighter solution for small battles.
Speed: 10 ....Damage: 25(7)....Craft: 2 flights
Turns: SM....Crew: - ...............Special Rules: Atmospheric, Dodge 6+, Stealth 5+, Fleet Carrier, Self Repair 1
Hull: 4.........Troops: - ..................Shields: 5/2
Weapon:
Beam ------ 8" ---- F ---- 1 AD ---- Triple Damage, Precise, Beam
As some place had to be found to carry two flights the structure has been weakened and so the hull is downgraded to 4.
Just wanna have an answer in small engagement and keep a small radius of use as it's only a skirmish.
I was thinking that 1AD of Beam Precise TD would better as this ship should be a fighter/anti-fighter solution for small battles.
Speed: 10 ....Damage: 25(7)....Craft: 2 flights
Turns: SM....Crew: - ...............Special Rules: Atmospheric, Dodge 6+, Stealth 5+, Fleet Carrier, Self Repair 1
Hull: 4.........Troops: - ..................Shields: 5/2
Weapon:
Beam ------ 8" ---- F ---- 1 AD ---- Triple Damage, Precise, Beam
As some place had to be found to carry two flights the structure has been weakened and so the hull is downgraded to 4.
mollari_uk
Mongoose
Yeah, 1AD is just too random. 2AD isn't that reliable but this makes it more like the Vorlon transport too. Combined with then new Accurate use of Shadow beams it'll make it a useful addition to the fleet.
Also I would add Carrier 2 as a trait. might not seem that important but it is suppose to be a carrier. If it's limit is 2 and it can repair fights it might quickly end up over full without it.
Edit; I would drop dodge. I don't like the concept of dodging and launching fighters it seems unrealistic to me. With SM and shields you should still be able to nip out of dangers way most of the time.
Edit; I would drop dodge. I don't like the concept of dodging and launching fighters it seems unrealistic to me. With SM and shields you should still be able to nip out of dangers way most of the time.
That's Shadows so no need about Carrier (you can always deploy all of your fighters before battle 
) Just keep dodge and forget about Carrier ;-)
(or forget both ;-) )
I thought that 2AD was too strong but why not, need to test it.
In fact the beam was here to allow the accurate turret so you have a fleet carrier with flights and anti-fighter weaponery. It was not really designed to hit as a beam but will test with two AD.
As a fleet carrier it can "regenerate" 2 flights per campagne turn and that can help to resplenish big ships without buying a ton of patrol points...
No need of a big MotherShip full of fighters, just some little fleet carriers
(helps dogfighting everywhere and can "save" some of your fighters)
EDIT : Meaning for Carrier trait that since you have 2 empty slots at the beggining (all fighters on table or in hyperspace) you can "rescue" 2 of your fighters per ShadowFleetCarrier and launch at least one per turn which seems rather correct, with Carrier 2 it's an endless bag of gold.. humm .. fighters ;-)
) Just keep dodge and forget about Carrier ;-)(or forget both ;-) )
I thought that 2AD was too strong but why not, need to test it.
In fact the beam was here to allow the accurate turret so you have a fleet carrier with flights and anti-fighter weaponery. It was not really designed to hit as a beam but will test with two AD.
As a fleet carrier it can "regenerate" 2 flights per campagne turn and that can help to resplenish big ships without buying a ton of patrol points...
No need of a big MotherShip full of fighters, just some little fleet carriers
(helps dogfighting everywhere and can "save" some of your fighters)
EDIT : Meaning for Carrier trait that since you have 2 empty slots at the beggining (all fighters on table or in hyperspace) you can "rescue" 2 of your fighters per ShadowFleetCarrier and launch at least one per turn which seems rather correct, with Carrier 2 it's an endless bag of gold.. humm .. fighters ;-)
About the new anti-fighter mode for Shadow beams: the rule says "The weapon will have its Range halved and lose the Beam trait, along with any Double, Triple or Quad Damage traits". No mention is made of the Precise trait. Can we confirm that anti-fighter mode does retain Precise? It's of little importance when shooting at fighters but very important if you're doing a drive-by shooting - zipping past an enemy ship straight ahead, double speed, and poking him with the beam in anti-fighter mode because he's not in your front arc to get a full blast.
As for the Skirmish ship, if 2AD DD is too powerful, and given that this ship is specifically designed to use its beam in anti-fighter mode, maybe drop it to 2AD (or 3AD) single damage? That gives it the same average base damage as 1AD DD (or TD) but with a better chance of getting something (plus criticals), and makes it a more effective anti-fighter weapon without making it overpowered. Alternatively just give it a scaled down version of the Scout's accurate phasing pulse cannon.
As for the Skirmish ship, if 2AD DD is too powerful, and given that this ship is specifically designed to use its beam in anti-fighter mode, maybe drop it to 2AD (or 3AD) single damage? That gives it the same average base damage as 1AD DD (or TD) but with a better chance of getting something (plus criticals), and makes it a more effective anti-fighter weapon without making it overpowered. Alternatively just give it a scaled down version of the Scout's accurate phasing pulse cannon.
Na-Po said:
Fleet Carrier allows you to recover fighters during the scenario.
Carrier allows you to rebuild two fighter flights for free before the next campaign turn.
If your going for the Skirmish carrier, I'd take it down the Carrier 2 route, rather then the Fleet Carrier route. Being that cheap in the PL means you'd get a lot of regenerated fighters, rather then a lot of fighter buffs. Though in fairness, I'd not include either and just give it a fighter dispersal tube instead.
Da Boss said:Maybe another thread could just be on specific rules clarifications that are needed? Lets face it the forum is good at spotting them
Sounds like a good plan.
In general, precise or not, I'd still use the beam in normal mode against a White Star. In anti-fighter mode, it may be accurate but it's also only a mini-beam, meaning it hits on a 4+; expect half as many hits as you have attack dice. In normal mode, expect as many hits as you have attack dice, of which the White Star then dodges half. The bottom line is the same number of hits on average, but full beam does triple damage.Da Boss said:
The only time you'd use the beam in anti-fighter mode against a capital ship is either because you've just flown past it, or you've taken a critical hit which knocks out your forward arc - anti-fighter fires in turret arc.
Actually, that's something else worth asking - if a Shadow ship takes a "No fire out of random arc" critical, do we now roll to see whether forward or turret arc was affected?
My bad, Carrier is needed to "regenerate" fighters so it would be Carrier 1 or 2. (but 1 is enough if you seek only the regenerating part of the trait)
The Dispersal Tube is not really needed IMO. It's just a waste of space on such a small ship.
The Beam has to stay in order to get the Accurate Turret but 3AD SD Precise at range 8 seems fair to me.
Speed: 10 ....Damage: 25(7)....Craft: 2 flights
Turns: SM....Crew: - ...............Special Rules: Atmospheric, Dodge 6+, Stealth 5+, Fleet Carrier, Carrier 1, Self Repair 1
Hull: 4.........Troops: - ..................Shields: 5/2
Weapon:
Beam ------ 8" ---- F ---- 3 AD ---- Single Damage, Precise, Beam
The Dispersal Tube is not really needed IMO. It's just a waste of space on such a small ship.
The Beam has to stay in order to get the Accurate Turret but 3AD SD Precise at range 8 seems fair to me.
Speed: 10 ....Damage: 25(7)....Craft: 2 flights
Turns: SM....Crew: - ...............Special Rules: Atmospheric, Dodge 6+, Stealth 5+, Fleet Carrier, Carrier 1, Self Repair 1
Hull: 4.........Troops: - ..................Shields: 5/2
Weapon:
Beam ------ 8" ---- F ---- 3 AD ---- Single Damage, Precise, Beam
mollari_uk
Mongoose
Doesn't this only apply to ships with a dispersal tube?
