Shadows playtest changes
- Thread starter Burger
- Start date
Stonehorse
Mongoose
Burger said:
About bloody time as well, seem that Mongoose may have finaly paid attention to that rather long thread on how useless Shadow Fighters were.
Either that or Hell has just performed a double trick, by A) becoming real, and B) Freezing over.
Now if only I had bought that Shadow Fleet I wanted before Mongoose stopped the production... guess I'll have to wait till Ironwind Miniatures start their miniatures.
I've not had a chance to read the latest S&P, but it this is true I may have to give it a read.
mollari_uk
Mongoose
Oh, oh, oh. The Stalker has been upgraded to get Stealth 4+
See play test rules v1.1.
That would have made it much more of a battle ship in my last game.
See play test rules v1.1.
That would have made it much more of a battle ship in my last game.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
mollari_uk said:
That's the problem with playtesting, you try something, make some recommendations, it gets changed, and then you have to do it all over again.
Foxmeister
Mongoose
mollari_uk said:
A vast improvement!
Regards,
Dave
l33tpenguin
Mongoose
Greg Smith said:mollari_uk said:
That's the problem with playtesting, you try something, make some recommendations, it gets changed, and then you have to do it all over again.
I wouldn't ever consider that a problem
Stonehorse
Mongoose
Just read the version 1.1
I have to say I think the Shadow Fleet has been fixed to how it should be now. The Shields, Pinning, Mind Scream, and Merging help reflect what we saw their ships do in the series.
Job well done Mongoose!
I have to say I think the Shadow Fleet has been fixed to how it should be now. The Shields, Pinning, Mind Scream, and Merging help reflect what we saw their ships do in the series.
Job well done Mongoose!
CZuschlag
Mongoose
Per Matt's request for Shadow Skirmish ideas and from another thread, go ahead and rip this idea apart and see how much of it is worth it.
:::
Below is a completely alternate thought on the Shadows. I have no idea if it's of any use at all .... rip it to shreds, and let's see what ideas are left.
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Another idea might be to resurrect the old full-scale Shadow Fighter as a new figure for the Shadow Skirmish or Patrol slot. The benefit of this would be the reuse of a miniature that is already in production allowing for faster casting when production is restarted.
Shadow "Infiltrator" or "Corsair":
Just as Shadow Ships evolve in power as they age, so too can Shadow Fighters. It is more unusual for this to occur, however, as combat experience is at a premium, and the Shadows are loathe to expose themselves unnecessarily. The attrition rate for Shadow Fighters is also imposing. However, the result is a substantial improvement in capability, durability, and independence.
Speed: 12....Damage: 13(5)....Craft: Special, See Below
Turns: SM....Crew: - ...............Special Rules: Atmospheric, Dodge 4+,
Hull: 5.........Troops: - ..................Shields: 3/2
Weapons:
Polarity Cannon ------ 8" ---- T ---- 3 AD ---- AP, Double Damage
Special Rules:
Hangars: Shadow Infiltrators may be housed and launched from Shadow Ships as per the Fighter dispersal tube. It counts as one flight for purposes of Hangar use.
Merging: Shadow Infiltrators may only merge with Shadow Ships. After 1 turn of merging, the Infiltrator can be considered to be inside the Shadow Ship at the discretion of the Shadow player. It may be deployed as per the Fighter Dispersal Tube. This is the only access to Self-Repair that Shadow Infiltrators have.
Expert: This is the farthest that a Shadow Fighter can grow. It can never buy Personality Traits with experience dice.
----------------------
I put the last in when I saw the Personality of Evasive, and thought "Wow, that'd be busted!".
:::
Below is a completely alternate thought on the Shadows. I have no idea if it's of any use at all .... rip it to shreds, and let's see what ideas are left.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Another idea might be to resurrect the old full-scale Shadow Fighter as a new figure for the Shadow Skirmish or Patrol slot. The benefit of this would be the reuse of a miniature that is already in production allowing for faster casting when production is restarted.
Shadow "Infiltrator" or "Corsair":
Just as Shadow Ships evolve in power as they age, so too can Shadow Fighters. It is more unusual for this to occur, however, as combat experience is at a premium, and the Shadows are loathe to expose themselves unnecessarily. The attrition rate for Shadow Fighters is also imposing. However, the result is a substantial improvement in capability, durability, and independence.
Speed: 12....Damage: 13(5)....Craft: Special, See Below
Turns: SM....Crew: - ...............Special Rules: Atmospheric, Dodge 4+,
Hull: 5.........Troops: - ..................Shields: 3/2
Weapons:
Polarity Cannon ------ 8" ---- T ---- 3 AD ---- AP, Double Damage
Special Rules:
Hangars: Shadow Infiltrators may be housed and launched from Shadow Ships as per the Fighter dispersal tube. It counts as one flight for purposes of Hangar use.
Merging: Shadow Infiltrators may only merge with Shadow Ships. After 1 turn of merging, the Infiltrator can be considered to be inside the Shadow Ship at the discretion of the Shadow player. It may be deployed as per the Fighter Dispersal Tube. This is the only access to Self-Repair that Shadow Infiltrators have.
Expert: This is the farthest that a Shadow Fighter can grow. It can never buy Personality Traits with experience dice.
----------------------
I put the last in when I saw the Personality of Evasive, and thought "Wow, that'd be busted!".
Stonehorse
Mongoose
Nice idea, my only concern is that it may get hard to remember which fighters are normal fighters, and which are not during a game, as the 2 are radicaly different game wise.
Here is my quick idea for a Skirmish ship.
It is based on the idea that the Shadows could walk around unseen many times in the series, that technology has been carried across to a small attack craft.
Shadow Phantom.
Speed: 12....Damage: 20
Turns: SM....Crew: - ...............Special Rules: Atmospheric, Dodge 5+,
Hull: 5.........Troops: - ..................Shields: 4/2
Weapons:
Polarity Cannon ------ 8" ---- F ---- 8 AD ---- AP, Double Damage
Ghost ship.
The Shadow Phantom ignores the pinning rule, it can also not be targeted by any Scout ship... friend or foe.
Phantom Strike.
The Phantom ship can forfeit it's movement to gain the Twin-Linked special rule on it's Polarity Cannon.
Fragile interior.
Due to the advance technology any critical damage result in any area that rolls a 6 destroys the Phantom ship out right.
Any thought?
Here is my quick idea for a Skirmish ship.
It is based on the idea that the Shadows could walk around unseen many times in the series, that technology has been carried across to a small attack craft.
Shadow Phantom.
Speed: 12....Damage: 20
Turns: SM....Crew: - ...............Special Rules: Atmospheric, Dodge 5+,
Hull: 5.........Troops: - ..................Shields: 4/2
Weapons:
Polarity Cannon ------ 8" ---- F ---- 8 AD ---- AP, Double Damage
Ghost ship.
The Shadow Phantom ignores the pinning rule, it can also not be targeted by any Scout ship... friend or foe.
Phantom Strike.
The Phantom ship can forfeit it's movement to gain the Twin-Linked special rule on it's Polarity Cannon.
Fragile interior.
Due to the advance technology any critical damage result in any area that rolls a 6 destroys the Phantom ship out right.
Any thought?
CZuschlag
Mongoose
I was hoping you'd know which was which the same way that ISA players know the difference between White Star Fighters and White Stars.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Our two ideas have similar size; mine is effectively 26 with shield 3/2, yours is 30 with 4/2.
8 AD, however, is way much. This is almost exactly the weapons array of the Vorchan minus the Plasma Accelerator (Shadows not CAFing makes them darn close). In exachange for the Plasma Accelerator, the Fragile rule (which I don't understand why it's necessary, but that's me), and no access to Close Blast Doors, the Shadow gets:
-- Access to Shadow movement, including SM and the Double-speed move
-- A 50% size upgrade (on CBD for free, all the time)
-- Shields
-- Free crit repair
-- Special Phantom Strike (CAF) Access.
Shadow movement counts for a lot, and, even after you are done, these things have little answer to fighters. What I've got has far fewer guns and still gives Shadows to the thing they REALLY want --- flexible initiative sinks. Give 'em a Skirmish purchase, and watch out for the Shadow Fleet and the Stalker to really come into its own. It's going to be brutal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Our two ideas have similar size; mine is effectively 26 with shield 3/2, yours is 30 with 4/2.
8 AD, however, is way much. This is almost exactly the weapons array of the Vorchan minus the Plasma Accelerator (Shadows not CAFing makes them darn close). In exachange for the Plasma Accelerator, the Fragile rule (which I don't understand why it's necessary, but that's me), and no access to Close Blast Doors, the Shadow gets:
-- Access to Shadow movement, including SM and the Double-speed move
-- A 50% size upgrade (on CBD for free, all the time)
-- Shields
-- Free crit repair
-- Special Phantom Strike (CAF) Access.
Shadow movement counts for a lot, and, even after you are done, these things have little answer to fighters. What I've got has far fewer guns and still gives Shadows to the thing they REALLY want --- flexible initiative sinks. Give 'em a Skirmish purchase, and watch out for the Shadow Fleet and the Stalker to really come into its own. It's going to be brutal.
Stonehorse
Mongoose
Quick question,
Do Shadow Fights Shields work if they are used as interceptors and roll a 1?
Do Shadow Fights Shields work if they are used as interceptors and roll a 1?
No. "Automatically destroyed".Stonehorse said:
I like the ideas... evolved shadow fighter is cool! Why the strange pinning number though (13/5)? I thought the pinning number was always 1/4 of the total damage? Might want to up the weapon a bit too, 3AD AP/DD is quite poor compared to the Scout's 6AD A/DD/SAP! I can't really see much reason to take 2 infiltrators instead of one scout. Pump it up to 4 or 5 AD and it'll be worth it.
CZuschlag
Mongoose
Couple of reasons for the changes:
I upped the Pinning number because at 25%, it would be 4, and I think that's just too little; 2 dice of Double Damage beam is already enough, and that's just too common for my liking. However, at 17 damage (the first place I could set the value to 5) the thing is just way too hard to kill. This is an exception to the standard 25% rule.
Why the fewer AD? It's a T arc, which gives a ton of flexibility, especially with Shadow movement allowing for speeds of 24" in a turn, while firing behind it. I found that pretty gross in and of itself -- the speed number may indeed be just way too high for T arc -- but as an enhanced fighter, how can I not give it a T arc? Seriously, as it is, this thing is a Patrol Scout ship's nightmare, thank goodness it cannot CAF ....
On the whole, I'd rather risk making a ship that's a bit too naff but adds an option to the Shadows than make the new ubership that breaks the race and causes the game damage due to failed balance. As it is, giving the Shadow Ship access to cheaper initiative sinks to leverage its SM movement to the fullest; this itself may be very powerful!
I upped the Pinning number because at 25%, it would be 4, and I think that's just too little; 2 dice of Double Damage beam is already enough, and that's just too common for my liking. However, at 17 damage (the first place I could set the value to 5) the thing is just way too hard to kill. This is an exception to the standard 25% rule.
Why the fewer AD? It's a T arc, which gives a ton of flexibility, especially with Shadow movement allowing for speeds of 24" in a turn, while firing behind it. I found that pretty gross in and of itself -- the speed number may indeed be just way too high for T arc -- but as an enhanced fighter, how can I not give it a T arc? Seriously, as it is, this thing is a Patrol Scout ship's nightmare, thank goodness it cannot CAF ....
On the whole, I'd rather risk making a ship that's a bit too naff but adds an option to the Shadows than make the new ubership that breaks the race and causes the game damage due to failed balance. As it is, giving the Shadow Ship access to cheaper initiative sinks to leverage its SM movement to the fullest; this itself may be very powerful!
just a thought here but has any ideas been given to bringing back the personalities for the Shadows. I can seem them being useful. As a whole I dont think the make your own admiral ability works well for the Shados and would prefer to see the personalities. I think this would better represent the Shadows as a whole. Otherwise the only other thing I could remotely think of was a hive mind like atribute chart.
Another thought here as well. Do people like the Shadow and Vorlon campaign ship expierence chart or would perhaps fleshing them out more might be a possibility. I would like to see the chart expanded to a 2d6 roll with other options like diverting raid....etc....thoughts?
Another thought here as well. Do people like the Shadow and Vorlon campaign ship expierence chart or would perhaps fleshing them out more might be a possibility. I would like to see the chart expanded to a 2d6 roll with other options like diverting raid....etc....thoughts?
