SF - Question About Fed Combined Drone Racks

[AdmiralGrafSpee]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^What the man above said :lol:

From what has been said by the powers that lurk.

Turn 1, your DWD flys out in front of the Fed fleet and blows a great big rasberry at the Kzinti.

Incoming Kzinti drones
Wave one DWD rolls 2,3,5,6. all stopped
Wave 2 rolls 1,3,4,4 all stopped, ammo down by one.
Wave 3 1,4,6,6 all stopped, ammo down by one
Wave 4 2,2,4,5 all stopped
Wave 5 1,1,2,4 all stopped, ammo down by one.
Wave 6 1,3,5,6 all stopped. ammo down by one.

Loud clunk from the depths of the ship as the auto loader tries to load new Drones but the magazine is empty. Fed DWD next turn runs for its life and becomes an Init sink for the rest of the game :lol:

I'm super clear on that's how ADDs work. Although that was never my question. That's in the rule book.

What isn't in the rulebook is how the reduction in the Anti-drone rating is related to the Attack Dice of the drone rack (for the federation special rule). If the DWD above had its Anti-drone rating reduced to 3, 2 or 1 during the turn, how does that change (if at all) the AD of the drone rack?

I assume the AD is reduced to match that of the anti-drone rating. But that is not stated in the rulebook. It only states what happens when the anti-drone rating is reduced to 0. One could argue that unless you completely reduce the anti-drone rating to 0 (i.e. runs out of ammo) you still have full AD with the drone rack - which in itself would regenerate the anti-drones in subsequent turns as they are based on the drone AD!

-Tim

 

[Sgt_G]

You're right, we need a ruling from Matthew. Players can hyper-parse the sentence either way.

The book says "if it runs out of ammo while using Anti-Drone", but in the context of the full paragraph, the "it" that could run out of ammo is the ship itself and not one drone rack out of a battery of four (4 AD).

Up until now, I just assumed the "it" was the rack, which would reduce the offensive drone AD by one for each ADD that ran out rolling a "1". I still assume that was the intent of the rule, but I see how someone could try to read differently into it and try to claim that a Fed ship that has lost one, two, or three ADD still has 4 AD of offensive drones. I think it was meant to be the ship would have 3, 2, or 1 AD of drones.

 

[Keeper Nilbog]

I always read it as when the ADD dropped a a rating, you lost an AD of Drone as well. Not so sure now, as the rack doesn't get to count as a trait, so the ADD is effected by power drain, so it seems to have a rather large drawback in that case.

Not that i mind overly, it makes them easier to hit :lol: :twisted: :lol:

 

[MongooseMatt]

If your ADD reaches zero, you can no longer use any drones.

That is the _only_ thing the rule says. Anything else you are making up!

Put it this way...

ADD >0, you can use drones.
ADD =0, you can't.

_Nothing_ about reducing AD on drones.

 

[Totenkopf]

If your ADD reaches zero, you can no longer use any drones.

That is the _only_ thing the rule says. Anything else you are making up!

Put it this way...

ADD >0, you can use drones.
ADD =0, you can't.

_Nothing_ about reducing AD on drones.

Thanks Matt!

 

[AdmiralGrafSpee]

If your ADD reaches zero, you can no longer use any drones.

That is the _only_ thing the rule says. Anything else you are making up!

Put it this way...

ADD >0, you can use drones.
ADD =0, you can't.

_Nothing_ about reducing AD on drones.

Thanks Matt, that's a very clear response.

This makes the Kirov, DNG and DWD almost immune to drones (barring incredibly bad luck). Since each turn if you decided to go the Anti-drone route the anti-drone rating is based on your drones AD.

 

[MongooseMatt]

This makes the Kirov, DNG and DWD almost immune to drones (barring incredibly bad luck). Since each turn if you decided to go the Anti-drone route the anti-drone rating is based on your drones AD.[/quote]

Oh, I have had plenty of Kirov's pop their ADD and lose their drones - it is rolling all those dice at once that does it, as you have to do that with every attack. Perfectly easy to lose all ADD with just 4-6 attacks and, against a target like a battlecruiser, that kind of attention is not beyond the realms of possibility!

 

[gord314]

Just so there is no confusion then:

Turn one: Kirov with 4 AD of drones is hit by 4 groups of 4 incoming drones, against the first batch it rolls a one so has its ADD reduced to 3, on the second batch it rolls no ones, on the third batch it rolls a one and has its ADD reduced to 2, and on the third batch it rolls all ones, but still only has its ADD reduced to 1.

Turn two: The same Kirov is fired on with 4 groups of 4 incoming drones. It again uses its drone racks as ADD, since the ADD value is based on the number of drone racks the Kirov has, this number is 4.

Is this correct?

 

[Sgt_G]

No, it's not correct.

If on turn one, the BCG rolled three "1" in anti-drone mode, then on turn two it hase only ONE anti-drone left. But it still has 4AD of drones if it would rather use them offensively, giving up the option of using anti-drone mode.

I saw nothing in the rules that prevents the Feds from using regular drones to pick off incoming drones. Of course, that's one-for-one, so you'd use that only if it's a small wave.

 

[gord314]

I didn't think it was correct, but it is what admiralgrafspee seemed to be saying, and Mr. Sprange did not contradict him, so I wanted a clear ruling.

 

[Sgt_G]

Well, re-reading the rule and the discussion above, including Matthew's post, it could be that I'm wrong and your example was in fact correct.

 

[Captain Jonah]

This makes the Kirov, DNG and DWD almost immune to drones (barring incredibly bad luck). Since each turn if you decided to go the Anti-drone route the anti-drone rating is based on your drones AD.

Oh, I have had plenty of Kirov's pop their ADD and lose their drones - it is rolling all those dice at once that does it, as you have to do that with every attack. Perfectly easy to lose all ADD with just 4-6 attacks and, against a target like a battlecruiser, that kind of attention is not beyond the realms of possibility!

So as it says here and is being agreed by the man with the red name. Each and every turn that a Fed G rack acts as an ADD it starts full. it can run out of ammo as the result of multiple drone salvos in a turn but next turn it is back to its full ADD rating since its ADD rating matches its Drone rating. DWD, BC and DN therefore can go ADD and will have ADD 4 every turn regardless of ammo used on an earlier turn.

Presumably those incredible Fed replicators are making new drones at a vast rate to reload the magazines :lol:

 

[Greg Smith]

Just so there is no confusion then:

Turn one: Kirov with 4 AD of drones is hit by 4 groups of 4 incoming drones, against the first batch it rolls a one so has its ADD reduced to 3, on the second batch it rolls no ones, on the third batch it rolls a one and has its ADD reduced to 2, and on the third batch it rolls all ones, but still only has its ADD reduced to 1.

Turn two: The same Kirov is fired on with 4 groups of 4 incoming drones. It again uses its drone racks as ADD, since the ADD value is based on the number of drone racks the Kirov has, this number is 4.

Is this correct?

I read it that way too.

 

[billclo]

I'm going to be contrarian. I read it differently.

Kirov starts with ADD 4, and is reduced by bad rolls to a "1" later in the turn.

Next turn if it wants to use it's drones offensively, it has 4 AD.
If it wants to use ADD, it has a rating of "1" since it lost 3 earlier.

When it runs out of ADD, no more drone fire can occur. (a previous ruling I believe).

I think it would have been easier to simply put a checkbox on the ship form for when the ship runs out of ADD, and say that the ship can still fire regular drones (since only Feds can run out of drones due to this odd rule).

 

[Keeper Nilbog]

If it resets at the start of a turn, which is what i actually think happens - having had a thunk, it models the old 'interceptor' rules for previous ActA rulesets. At first i was against, but it actually makes more sense to 'reset', as ships with large racks tend to be bigger (and more costly). In relation to the Fed's, they also lose offensive ability, so that balances this out.

 

[Captain Jonah]

I'm going to be contrarian. I read it differently.

Kirov starts with ADD 4, and is reduced by bad rolls to a "1" later in the turn.

Next turn if it wants to use it's drones offensively, it has 4 AD.
If it wants to use ADD, it has a rating of "1" since it lost 3 earlier.

When it runs out of ADD, no more drone fire can occur. (a previous ruling I believe).

If your ADD reaches zero, you can no longer use any drones.

That is the _only_ thing the rule says. Anything else you are making up!

Put it this way...

ADD >0, you can use drones.
ADD =0, you can't.

_Nothing_ about reducing AD on drones.

This makes the Kirov, DNG and DWD almost immune to drones (barring incredibly bad luck). Since each turn if you decided to go the Anti-drone route the anti-drone rating is based on your drones AD.

Oh, I have had plenty of Kirov's pop their ADD and lose their drones - it is rolling all those dice at once that does it, as you have to do that with every attack. Perfectly easy to lose all ADD with just 4-6 attacks and, against a target like a battlecruiser, that kind of attention is not beyond the realms of possibility!

Yes the earlier post from the man with the red name said when you hit zero you can no longer fire any more drones. He has also said that using drone ammo does not reduce the drone rating and the bit highlighted above was him quoting someone else. It clearly says you can run out of ADD rating in a turn and can no longer fire ADDs in that turn but the next turn the ADD rating is based on the Drone rating which is 4. Msprange did not say that was wrong, he used that clear statement as a quote then referenced a Fed BC running out of ADDs after only 4-6 salvos of enemy drones (in a turn since he is referencing the comment in red).

Mr Red name man keeps saying read what is written. His post contains the phrase in red. Fairly clear. :roll: :lol:

Makes drone attacks against a Fed DWD, BC or DN a fleet effort since only a few ships cannot overcome the ADD4 in one turn with enough attacks left to do damage.

Thing is with these questions I thing Msprange is reluctant to make judgement calls in case he sets precedents which is why he doesn't come right out and say something but rather refers to the rules. If he makes an interpretation of something it is set in stone because he said :mrgreen:

 

[Keeper Nilbog]

ADD rules state that once empty, there gone (forgive me if i misunderstood your post, Capt. J, you seem to suggest that they reset to there full level the next turn). If they follow the interceptor rules, they would reset EVERY turn until knocked out. Pg 14 states Ships reduced to an Anti-Drone score of 0 wil no longer have this trait.

The Federation special rule states - last line - However, if it runs out of ammunition whilst using the Anti-drone trait, then it may not use any drones for the rest of the battle. Nothing mentioned about reduction in strength of Drone rack, UNTIL emptied as an ADD. So 4AD Drones every turn used offensively UNLESS weapon system distroyed or ADD emptied.

 

[billclo]

ADD rules state that once empty, there gone (forgive me if i misunderstood your post, Capt. J, you seem to suggest that they reset to there full level the next turn). If they follow the interceptor rules, they would reset EVERY turn until knocked out. Pg 14 states Ships reduced to an Anti-Drone score of 0 wil no longer have this trait.

The Federation special rule states - last line - However, if it runs out of ammunition whilst using the Anti-drone trait, then it may not use any drones for the rest of the battle. Nothing mentioned about reduction in strength of Drone rack, UNTIL emptied as an ADD. So 4AD Drones every turn used offensively UNLESS weapon system distroyed or ADD emptied.

Which suggests to me that if you're the Fed running a good ship (Kirov) that's down to ADD 1, that you forgo any more ADD fire and preserve your awesome 4AD of drones. You can always fire drones at other drones in a pinch, and you keep the ability to fire 4 AD of drones at an enemy ship.

 

[Keeper Nilbog]

not on the same turn though, and your going to have to use 'other stuff' against any extra drone barrages.

Agree though, and its a choice all ships with high ADD have.

 

[AdmiralGrafSpee]

Which suggests to me that if you're the Fed running a good ship (Kirov) that's down to ADD 1, that you forgo any more ADD fire and preserve your awesome 4AD of drones. You can always fire drones at other drones in a pinch, and you keep the ability to fire 4 AD of drones at an enemy ship.

Agreed, and that will be the way I'd play it, unless of course another deathly salvo of drones comes your way!

-Tim