SF Drones?
- Thread starter MarkDawg
- Start date
SneakyPete
Mongoose
And to clarify, when you roll one (or more than one ones) using antidrone you lose only one total antidrone for that defensive action. All incoming drones that you just made a defensive roll for are destroyed even if this brings you down to ADD 0 after rolling.
No more than three ships from one side may attack the same ship on the opponents team in one round.
No more than three ships from one side may attack the same ship on the opponents team in one round.
MarkDawg said:
Haven't seen that in our games at all - both my 'main' fleets are non-ADD users, and I have never felt overwhelmed by drones...
Well I played the Kintiz and each one of there ship fires 4 D6 drones per turn. There ships are strong with good shields and hulls.
If I have anti drone it will most likely be gone after the first turn your and they are firing 4 d6 drones to my 1-2 and firing disruptors seems legit!!?
If I have anti drone it will most likely be gone after the first turn your and they are firing 4 d6 drones to my 1-2 and firing disruptors seems legit!!?
MarkDawg said:
I think I know the problem - as a Klingon player, you kinda rely on ADD and feel sort of naked without it
As I play non-ADD fleets, I don't miss it and just presume I will automatically be using phasers and tractor beams to bring down drones!My best advice - try a non-ADD fleet for a while. It will give you a good appreciation of Klingons
msprange said:MarkDawg said:
I think I know the problem - as a Klingon player, you kinda rely on ADD and feel sort of naked without it
My best advice - try a non-ADD fleet for a while. It will give you a good appreciation of Klingons
Matt - You've mentioned tractors before and I don't see them as much of anything of real value versus drones. Most ships have 2-3 and they have a 50% chance of working. Once used, that's it for the entire turn therefore in a single firing phase against Kzinti you have maybe 2 drones out of 12 taken down by tractors, if you are lucky. As most ships have 2 Phaser 3's, even if both are in arc which most aren't, you are lucky if you kill 2 more. Thus the average cruiser sized non-ADD ship, if a bit lucky in tractor and Phaser 3 rolling, kills maybe 1 full 4 drone launch from the Kzinti using all their Phaser 3's and tractors. They now have to use Phaser 1's or hope their IDF rolls were good or they are going to take 8 x D6 hits for around 24-28 hits plus whatever phaser/disruptor/photon goodness the other guy cares to inflict.
I'm OK with the drone rules as is, in that between the three ship limit and the long range nerf the drone chuckers have to come within 18" and thus, can be hit, but it is still going to be very challenging for the non-ADD fleets when people start getting Kzinti fleet boxes and Fed DWD models on the table.
McKinstry said:
Your analysis is correct - except you miss that you are _supposed_ to use phasers 1 to defend you against drones
Also consider boosting shields, as every dice you roll for that does, in theory (and on average) nullifies one drone. Boosting shields before you get hit by drones is best Also consider throwing drones back at your opponent, either directly against his drones (one takes care of one), or at his ships, forcing him to blow ADDs or soak up phaser fire.
Handling drones (whether giving or receiving) is all about keeping your opponent off balance and getting him to react to you, rather than the other way around.
And don't be afraid to take damage. That 24-28 hit average you cite is quite soakable by many cruiser-level ships if you choose not to use phasers-1 to defend yourself, instead using them to hit back and try to force your opponent on the defensive. Of course, you will spend the next turn boosting shields!
It is kinda difficult to put this down in words - there is a sort of feel you have to develop as to when to take the damage on the chin and when to go fully defensive. Once you crack it though, you'll start winning a lot more!
Try a non-ADD fleet, is my recommendation. That will force you to think about incoming drones on other terms. You can then apply that back to your Klingons.
Keeper Nilbog
Mongoose
Just not Gorn vs Kzinti - Gorn can handle the drone light races (all but Kzinti, with some Orion and Fed). You'll have problems with more than 5 drones, due to arcs and so on.
Handled the ligt drone fleets quite well in games i've played (Vs Fed - Romulans are a breeze :lol: )
Handled the ligt drone fleets quite well in games i've played (Vs Fed - Romulans are a breeze :lol: )
msprange said:Your analysis is correct - except you miss that you are _supposed_ to use phasers 1 to defend you against drones
I agree that each boost shield die effectively cancels 1 drone but assuming even a 30 shield ship, that Kzinti attack is reduced to 5 x D6 for an average damage range between 15-20. Your Phaser 1's, even for Gorns and Romulans with their mediocre arcs, can certainly both take out a 5 drones although by no means guaranteed but unless you are firing plasma this turn, you have now spent a full turn with a major warship doing zero damage from zero offensive action or you can suck up that 15-20m point shield drop. Should you take the hits to be able to make the other fellow at least react somewhat or if you are firing plasmas this turn, next turn you have to chose between boosting shields or reloading and since you'll be down at least that 15-20 points, you're in deep excretory matter.
msprange said:
I don't believe that option is possible for any of the non-ADD fleets. As far as I know, there isn't a drone to be found in the Gorn or Romulan fleets.
msprange said:
That isn't an option for the early series Romulan ships but the Hawk series and certainly the Gorn can do that but, as both are reload dependent fleets, the reactive only/defend with phasers while boosting shields is a defensive/reactive mode and once the plasma tubes are empty, it is a very hard cycle to break as it takes offensive fire to put the other chap, assuming he isn't a Gorn or Romulan, on his defensive and make him react to you.
@McKinstry Well said brother.
I think Drones are just too large a part of this game and the weapons that are more Star Trek have way less emphasis. I don't like how the dominate the game from a game stand point and a Fluff stand point.
I realize this is the SFU not Star Trek but the point still stands that this many drones being this powerful feels like drone wars not Star Trek.
I think Drones are just too large a part of this game and the weapons that are more Star Trek have way less emphasis. I don't like how the dominate the game from a game stand point and a Fluff stand point.
I realize this is the SFU not Star Trek but the point still stands that this many drones being this powerful feels like drone wars not Star Trek.
MarkDawg said:
I like the drone rules as they stand now but playing a Gorn or Romulan fleet against either the Kzinti or a drone heavy Federation fleet is in my opinion, very tough. What Matt says about making the other fellow react to you is true but when you have to reload your primary punch while virtually your entire remaining offense gets absorbed defending against drones, it becomes very difficult to dig yourself out of the hole that the combination of reload and 3 x 4 drone waves creates. I think the best bet is a layered offense that has about 50% of a Gorn or Romulan fleet not firing plasmas even within range to give the fleet a multi-turn offense and avoid the every other turn free hack syndrome that reloading in the face of a drone heavy fleet creates. That is of course, easier said than done.
Other than Kzinti or drone heavy Feds (and I'm not that convinced about drone heavy Feds as the DWD isn't very robust), the fleets are very balanced. I'm very comfortable taking a 'vanilla' Fed fleet against Klingons (whose drones other than the C8 are annoying but hardly deadly) and while I would likely only take 2+drone Feds against the Kzinti for the more robust ADD counts, I have experienced a Fed fleet doing very well against Kzinti who really don't have the firepower, shields or magic Klingon agility to survive in a 15" and under environment with a Fed fleet. As to the Klingons, I think they are also a Kzinti killing machine although, as with the Feds, a fleet heavy on the ADD2+ ships is indicated.
McKinstry said:
Given that every new version of the errata seems to be increase the Romulan phaser compliment (apparently they keep nicking them from the Gorn) coupled with their pretty good arcs for phaser 3's in many ships and good numbers of tractor beams they are as badly off as the Gorn.
Apparently no drones in the Gorn/Romulan inventory - it seems only the Federation gets to pick and choose what other Empires weapons are worth having :wink:
