Sentient Machines
- Thread starter Yrtalien
- Start date
Kizarvexis
Mongoose
The Vorlons had living ships. But they were more like obedient dogs than a sentient. Other than that, I don't remember any sentient machines.
There was a mention in S5 "Phoenix Rising" that there were experiments with high level robotics.
While he was describing Asimov's Laws to Garibaldi, Bester said that "pre-ban cyberneticists" on Earth had built them into their machines. That implies that at one time, Earth had intelligent robots or machines of some kind, but later decided to put an end to them. Why? Was there a problem with the machines? What happened, and when?
Unfortunately, these questions have not been answered as far as I know.
Kizarvexis
There was a mention in S5 "Phoenix Rising" that there were experiments with high level robotics.
While he was describing Asimov's Laws to Garibaldi, Bester said that "pre-ban cyberneticists" on Earth had built them into their machines. That implies that at one time, Earth had intelligent robots or machines of some kind, but later decided to put an end to them. Why? Was there a problem with the machines? What happened, and when?
Unfortunately, these questions have not been answered as far as I know.
Kizarvexis
As far as I know there are no sentient machine races in B5. There was an intelligent annoying AI on Babylon 5 that was removed because it was faulty but that was it. I believe the Hyach use a lot of robotics and miniaturised technology but thats about it.
I think its either robotic small drones under the control of someone else or organic technology thats been shown as autonomous entities.
I think its either robotic small drones under the control of someone else or organic technology thats been shown as autonomous entities.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
There were the Ikarran devices in "Infection" but they were roganic in nature.
There may have been some intelligent machines in the Great Machine on Epsilon 3, but we never saw them.
LBH
There may have been some intelligent machines in the Great Machine on Epsilon 3, but we never saw them.
LBH
Felix_Lunar
Mongoose
You talking about the Vicer's (named after the old style VCR), small guy, got a taste for Jovian Sunspots, weird hat, recorded Thalia Winters emotions on a data-crystal during "negotiations" with Kosh?
Can't remember the episode name or where they are mentioned in the RPG-books (I know they are mentioned there somewhere). Iirc they are maybe more like a human with his brain replaced with a machine. Will come back to this when I have the time.
Can't remember the episode name or where they are mentioned in the RPG-books (I know they are mentioned there somewhere). Iirc they are maybe more like a human with his brain replaced with a machine. Will come back to this when I have the time.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Abbut, the guy you mention, still had organic brain matter visible in that episode, or something that looked like it.
LBH
LBH
Felix_Lunar
Mongoose
lastbesthope said:
Ah, yes, Abbut, thank you LBH. Just figured it might be what Yrtalien thought of.
Kizarvexis
Mongoose
I forgot about Abbut.
The Vicar Abbut was seen in the S1 ep "Deathwalker". The RPG info can be found on pages 207 & 208 of the 1st ed RPG & Fact book.
From the Lurker's Guide.
Talia Winters has an interesting time with Kosh during this episode. Here we see the first of a known class of people called "vicars," short for "VCRs." These people are human recorders, capable of recording sensory and environmental information for later playback through devices directly implanted in their brains. This demonstrates a very high degree of possible integration between people and computers at the time of B5. How common this is and how sophisticated it can be has yet to be seen.
jms didn't say much on Abbut or the vicars.
Abbut was screwing around when he said "I'm a 23 myself," just messing with her.
Abbut was not - repeat, NOTan imitation of Harlan, as some have suggested. It was originally written for Gilbert Gottfried, who we later learned was unavailable.
Kizarvexis
The Vicar Abbut was seen in the S1 ep "Deathwalker". The RPG info can be found on pages 207 & 208 of the 1st ed RPG & Fact book.
From the Lurker's Guide.
Talia Winters has an interesting time with Kosh during this episode. Here we see the first of a known class of people called "vicars," short for "VCRs." These people are human recorders, capable of recording sensory and environmental information for later playback through devices directly implanted in their brains. This demonstrates a very high degree of possible integration between people and computers at the time of B5. How common this is and how sophisticated it can be has yet to be seen.
jms didn't say much on Abbut or the vicars.
Abbut was screwing around when he said "I'm a 23 myself," just messing with her.
Abbut was not - repeat, NOTan imitation of Harlan, as some have suggested. It was originally written for Gilbert Gottfried, who we later learned was unavailable.
Kizarvexis
Gabriel_Luna
Mongoose
The Lazarus project, with the cyberzombie Free Mars terrorist might also relate to this discussion.
That episode and others had references to the "cyber experiments" as something from the past, but I don't recall the exact dates.
There's also the Babylon 5 AI Sparky. They say that when the station first went online they tried out an experimental AI, but it was disabled almost immediately, for obvious reasons.
If an AI competent enough to run B5 is possible, and cyberware sufficient to override a human brain, not to mention to run a human body is possible, then I don't think it's a big step to say that a full machine entity is possible. We never saw a specific example of it on the show, but I think it's not a big step to take, if you need/want one in your campaign.
All that being said, however, the holy grail of technology in Babylon 5 is organic tech. A machine entity would likely end up outdated if it's that sophisticated but stops short of building a custom organic body for itself as the next step in its evolution.
That episode and others had references to the "cyber experiments" as something from the past, but I don't recall the exact dates.
There's also the Babylon 5 AI Sparky. They say that when the station first went online they tried out an experimental AI, but it was disabled almost immediately, for obvious reasons.
If an AI competent enough to run B5 is possible, and cyberware sufficient to override a human brain, not to mention to run a human body is possible, then I don't think it's a big step to say that a full machine entity is possible. We never saw a specific example of it on the show, but I think it's not a big step to take, if you need/want one in your campaign.
All that being said, however, the holy grail of technology in Babylon 5 is organic tech. A machine entity would likely end up outdated if it's that sophisticated but stops short of building a custom organic body for itself as the next step in its evolution.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Gabriel_Luna said:
I'm not sure it was though, I mean the AI's own comment "So what if sector (blahblah) doesn't get it's quota of oxygen for today" prove thathe may not have been fully up to the task.
LBH
Gabriel_Luna
Mongoose
Or that might have been Sparky just being a jerk because someone was asking him to actually work. 
Either way though, the implication is that the AI was handling much of B5's automation and computer interface. Whether it could do it all perfectly is less important here than the fact that seemingly-sentient AIs are possible, cyborgs are possible so I see no reason for sentient machines to be possible too.
Either way though, the implication is that the AI was handling much of B5's automation and computer interface. Whether it could do it all perfectly is less important here than the fact that seemingly-sentient AIs are possible, cyborgs are possible so I see no reason for sentient machines to be possible too.Greg Smith
Mongoose
Even the 'Great Machine' needed a sentient guardian. Sentient machines would seem to be possible though, just not run of the mill.
[edit: for spelling]
[edit: for spelling]
Gabriel_Luna
Mongoose
Greg Smith said:
You know, that's an EXCELLENT counter-example. I hadn't thought of that, and I can't think of a good argument. If you can make a sentient machine there isn't much reason it couldn't handle anything a sentient biological lifeform could handle, in theory. Unless it's just that the Great Machine is too complicated and requires a biological mind capable of adapting beyond a series of programs? I dunno.
So yeah, I'll second that. Possible, maybe, but certainly not common.
Mongoose Gar
Mongoose
The Great Machine definitely had a telepathic component, though, which might be impossible for sentient machines to use.
Gabriel_Luna
Mongoose
Ooh, good point! Alright, that fixes that then.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Mongoose Gar said:
The Great Machine also worked BETTER when there was a Telepath running it, even if it was a P-0 like Ivanova.
Telepathy seems to be something that cannot be programmed into a machine. Even the Shadows had problems with Telepaths.
Kizarvexis
Mongoose
Cyborg RichRU12 said:
I think it was the 'weapons components' for the ships and not necessarily the Shadows themselves that had problems. The teep could stop/interfere with the ship/person interface to slow down or stop a Battlecrab. That is why the Shadows wanted blips. A teep would have a hard time interfering with the Battlecrab when the 'pilot' could fight back telepathically.
Kizarvexis
Personally I feel that the main reason we do not have intelligent machines is that in Babylon 5 organic technology is the be-all and end-all of technology. To be sufficiently advanced - to be anywhere near First One-ish - then you must utilize organic tech. Even humanity a million years hence becomes an organic tech race.
This means why would you need to create a sentient machine when you could just place sentience into your ships - like the Vorlons do. Oh, and speaking of Vorlon ships, they are actually highly intelligent, though they are bred for Order and obedience and get pleasure from obeying.
So its pretty much organic tech rules and inorganic tech is just a stepping tone to the use of organic tech.
This means why would you need to create a sentient machine when you could just place sentience into your ships - like the Vorlons do. Oh, and speaking of Vorlon ships, they are actually highly intelligent, though they are bred for Order and obedience and get pleasure from obeying.
So its pretty much organic tech rules and inorganic tech is just a stepping tone to the use of organic tech.
Gabriel_Luna
Mongoose
Though it might make an interesting plotline for a sentient machine to aspire to full organic tech status. Or even a sentient machine that was left behind when its race went on to become First One-ish. Might make for an interesting, bitter, resentful and ruthless villain. Particularly when you take into account that it thinks it's pretty advanced compared to the Younger Races, but the First Ones see it as little more than a child's toy, not even worth paying attention to. Heck, I'd be bitter.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Gabriel_Luna said:
We see a little of this with the Genus Loci AI in an episode of Crusade.
LBH
