Screens

[Nerhesi]

Even for capital damage systems, I really only envision:

1 Attack roll
1 PD roll (if required - depends on attack)
1 Screen roll (if required - depends on attack)

Im not sure we should be saying Screens are automatic, but sorry PD isn't. I think it's a bit arbitrary of us to start staying what is automatic and what isn't like that. Remember, MGT1 screens were not automatic and were heavily influenced by skill (you added your skill-rank to the amount stopped by each screen).

If we make MGT2 screens automatic and random, then it literally becomes a crapshoot that is not indicative of player or crew skills. It's just a 2d6 spread and blah. Which is a step away from what MGT2 has been doing in terms of ensuring skill/crew quality validity (personal combat dodging, starship evasion, lockons, aid-gunner action, effect adding to damage in starship combat) etc etc

Again - I'm interested to see what Matt comes out with for massed screens for capital combat which will help us tailor this solution.

 

[Chas]

That 3 roll design will mean removing every aspect of electronic warfare from the mass combat matrix. Locking on, breaking locks, attacking missiles. Especially the lock on, with the gazillions of credits spent on stealth will need a very well thought out mechanic to remove as a roll.

There are issues with getting too many specialized rolls for one aspect of combat. If your nuclear missile needs carefully adjudicated electronic warfare rolls (lock on, break lock, electronic defense), then point defense rolls, then screen rolls... then your actual attack roll with all its complications, and then you've got damage calculations to make based on effect, armor et al... it is all getting a bit much :lol: :lol:

 

[Nerhesi]

That 3 roll design will mean removing every aspect of electronic warfare from the mass combat matrix. Locking on, breaking locks, attacking missiles. Especially the lock on, with the gazillions of credits spent on stealth will need a very well thought out mechanic to remove as a roll.

There are issues with getting too many specialized rolls for one aspect of combat. If your nuclear missile needs carefully adjudicated electronic warfare rolls (lock on, break lock, electronic defense), then point defense rolls, then screen rolls... then your actual attack roll with all its complications, and then you've got damage calculations to make based on effect, armor et al... it is all getting a bit much :lol: :lol:

How did you assume no lockons? I postulated 3 rolls as the core, not the end-all be-all. I wouldn exclude mechanics to make things faster!

I think we'll need to wait and see what matt proposes. Lockons won't be disappearing at all . They're integral.

Same amount of rolls as normal combat. But possibly even faster combat due to aggregate rolling... I hope anyways. Honestly could be something completely different popping out...

FYI - I generally house rule lockons to be one opposed roll between the ships. The current lockon rules (separate roll first, then opposed rolls after) seems excessive. SO perhaps a quicker lockon system is needed for capital combat

And finally - who knows, Mass combat may be very different. Maybe it'll be like battletech battleforce with damage "values" per range bracket and it would be super simplified.

Example:
Battleship
To-hit bonus: +3
Armour: 15
Damage value s/m/l/vl: 55/40/40/40
Missile/torp power: 60
PD value: 20
Nuclear/meson screen value: 10/20
EW bonus: +5

And go! Lol... who knows!

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Opinion:

Please keep it simple: A screen either kills X% of all attacks, or X attacks (where X is probably dependent on someone's skill). Please clearly define exactly how it is done and in what order.

 

[Nerhesi]

Thats what I'm thinking. Roll 2D, then multiply result X from some table by the number of screens. Thats how much damage is stopped. Makes it super quick to simulate even like 100 screens from the target, and it's defending patrol/support ships that may be screening for it too

 

[MongooseMatt]

Okay, been looking at this, fiddling with several different systems (was thinking about opposing screen Effect against attack roll Effect, but that does not really go where we need things). In the end, I made one tiny, tiny change to how many screens a single gunner can use. Haven't messed around with Power or tonnage requirements for screens yet but, as a core mechanic, what would you chaps think of...


Angle Screens (Gunner)
Using a screen, a gunner can attempt to deflect or reduce incoming attacks. The type of attack that can be nullified in this way depends on the type of screen being used. The gunner must succeed at a Gunner (screen) check against an attack and, if successful, he will be able to apply the effects of the screen against that specific attack, as defined under the rules for the screen.

A gunner may use any number of screens against a single attack, combining their effects. A gunner may only attempt to Angle Screens once every round.

Shields
Many universes feature ships capable of generating shields that deflect or absorb damage. These are covered in the High Technology chapter.

Meson Screen
Meson screens block attacks from meson weapons by preventing meson decay. A successful use of a meson screen against a meson weapon reduces its damage by 2D. Against Destructive weapons, every five meson screens will reduce damage by 1DD.

Nuclear Damper
Nuclear dampers project a series of nodes and anti-nodes where the strong nuclear force is enhanced or degraded, rendering nuclear warheads ineffective. A successful use of a nuclear damper against a fusion weapon or salvo of nuclear warheads (whether they are on missiles or torpedoes) reduces its damage by 2D and removes the Radiation trait. Against Destructive weapons, every five nuclear dampers will reduce damage by 1DD and remove the Radiation trait.

 

[Nerhesi]

Matt - everything seems straightforward, but there is one flaw (or perhaps a misunderstanding).

You state you can only attempt to angle screens once. So basically, each screen can only be used once? So right now we have 20-ton defensive items (Screen), that can barely reduce the damage from a 1-ton triple missile turret. Even against fusion guns they're horribly inefficient. Also Matt, there is no reason to raise Screen skill as much as other skill - no negative modifiers and effect doesnt do anything!

Basically Matt, we need a system for re-use. Back in the day, it was -1 per additional usage of screens. It worked well.

In this new world Matt, similar to point defense, I think we should just tie it to the effect of the screen user. Example:

Gunner makes an angle screen roll (lower difficulty to 8), reduce incoming damage by 1D x effect x screens! Tada - Genius! But in all seriousness - consider this. Making your previous roll of 10, means your screen stops 2D. Skilled screen users will scale the effect! This also rebalances them (makes them useful) as they were in MGT1 AND it follows the same system as Point defense, where you no longer need multiple rolls, you just use the effect!