Matt_H said:Does sanity even have a place in heroic fantasy?...
Sure - warhammer has made decades worth of material out of combining the two... As I say - eventual mental ruin bad - but fear and terror when, say, a demon appears tells the players they're in for a particular type of experience; one mood or themed based.Matt_H said:Does sanity even have a place in heroic fantasy?
Unless you have some encounter in mind that specifically targets the mind.
Think of your favourite fantasy or mythological character and think how far he or she would have got in a straight jacket.
I don't agree with it in the least. Cthulhu is specifically meant to be horror and reflects this with its sanity rules, fantasy genres see the horrors as obstacles to hack, hew and burn.
The average amount of gore, disemboweling and beheading in most fantasy sessions would render a Cthulhu party 80% insane and out of action and that's before you even get to the inhuman foes, magic, demons etc.
Asyme said:Sure - warhammer has made decades worth of material out of combining the two... As I say - eventual mental ruin bad - but fear and terror when, say, a demon appears tells the players they're in for a particular type of experience; one mood or themed based.
For an example of my general play style my first ever game with my present groups was a pathfinder attempt. The party were terrified (and I mean terrified) by what the module had described as a small nest of half hit dice monsters - little demonic gremlin types. By refusing to describe them, having em lurk in the shadows and littering the floor with headless corpses of carrion the little critters suddenly became terrifying. In legend I'd definitely have at least called for some kind of willpower check if they'd fallen into a nest of them.
Sure it does. The Eternal Champion and Conan sagas have more than their fair share of the insane, deranged and psychotically unstable.Does sanity even have a place in heroic fantasy?
And many favourite fantasy characters are favourites because of such psychological afflictions!Think of your favourite fantasy or mythological character and think how far he or she would have got in a straight jacket.
I don't agree with it in the least. Cthulhu is specifically meant to be horror and reflects this with its sanity rules, fantasy genres see the horrors as obstacles to hack, hew and burn.
Depends on what events an individual may have experienced leading to becoming inured to such experiences. A WWI veteran serving at The Somme will have witnessed wholesale carnage and trauma on a scale that may leave him utterly inured to similar atrocities in everyday life. Same goes for fantasy settings too. A villager who has spent his life without witnessing the horror of battle will be affected by carnage whereas someone brought up with it day-in, day-out will be (relatively) inured.The average amount of gore, disemboweling and beheading in most fantasy sessions would render a Cthulhu party 80% insane and out of action and that's before you even get to the inhuman foes, magic, demons etc.
This is an interesting question, and I'd dare to answer it:Matt_H said:Does sanity even have a place in heroic fantasy?
I've read those books too, and I have to say that I don't think Tyrion ever does a single act of madness. Yeah, he does a few acts in rage of being laughed at, but he is never truly mad. (His sister is though).Loz said:In 'Song of Ice and Fire' Tyrion becomes psychologically scarred by the treatment of his family that he is driven to extreme acts (I won't say what in case of spoiling things for those who haven't read the full saga yet).
I think the first paragraph contradicts the second here. People from different cultures have different views on what is rational. And thus, in a culture that believes in demons and spirits, they'll more easily be able to rationalize what is happening.Depends on what events an individual may have experienced leading to becoming inured to such experiences. A WWI veteran serving at The Somme will have witnessed wholesale carnage and trauma on a scale that may leave him utterly inured to similar atrocities in everyday life. Same goes for fantasy settings too. A villager who has spent his life without witnessing the horror of battle will be affected by carnage whereas someone brought up with it day-in, day-out will be (relatively) inured.The average amount of gore, disemboweling and beheading in most fantasy sessions would render a Cthulhu party 80% insane and out of action and that's before you even get to the inhuman foes, magic, demons etc.
However, events (like demons, magic etc) that have no fundamental and rational reference point will have an impact irrespective of the setting.
I somewhat agree here, the mechanics can do those things. On the other hand, they also force strict definitions of mental illnesses on characters. Definitions that are far from a good picture of a real world mental illness, and can as such, ruin some good roleplaying from players who are not going to get shoe-horned into some game designers (or GM) idea of insanity.Sanity mechanics do have a place because they:
a) Help those who don't feel comfortable portraying someone suffering from insanity through pure roleplaying.
b) Provide a handy measure for scaling insanity.
c) Help apply the use of insanity consistently across the players - just as all other game mechanics tend to do.
I do agree that roleplaying insanity is the best way of portraying it, but that can sometimes be difficult and unrealistic. Sanity mechanics provide a handy short-hand and abstraction that can help overcome some of the inherent problems of acting it out in a realistic fashion.
I haven't tried using a sanity system with Legend yet. But I usually add horror aspects to my games so I definitely plan to.Asyme said:Has anyone tried using a sanity system that isn't quite as harsh or deadly as the Cthulhu variant?
I was looking for some variant of willpower checks that reflects the more horrorish/dark magic aspect of my current campaign without ensuring players quickly end up as lunatics...
Absolutely. There should always be a reason and context.So, don't impact insanity and contagious diseases on players just for playing the game.
Again, I agree - although it can be difficult to manage. I've been in, and run, Cthulhu games where a player has done, or attempted to do just that. Much depends on the GM's skill in managing scenery-chewers of course. But the reverse is also true for those who aren't comfortable with scenery-chewing. The mechanics form a handy reference point for reflecting the sanity loss.If on the other hand a player wishes to play an insane character, I'd say let him go for it, as long as he doesn't hug the spotlight, and all that jazz.
I've read those books too, and I have to say that I don't think Tyrion ever does a single act of madness. Yeah, he does a few acts in rage of being laughed at, but he is never truly mad. (His sister is though).
Very true. It depends entirely on the setting.People from different cultures have different views on what is rational. And thus, in a culture that believes in demons and spirits, they'll more easily be able to rationalize what is happening.
Unless you're a clinical psychologist this will always be a problem. But usually the descent into game madness is there to reflect exposure to a particular experience in a way that can be handled within game confines. The mechanics generally aren't there to create 'Lunatic: The Maddening, a roleplaying game realistic mental instability'. I also don't think that they force strict definitions either; Cthulhu is actually quite vague in its descriptions of phobias and insanities. As we've agreed though, good roleplaying can bring the affliction alive in ways that transcend the definitions, whether strict or vague.I somewhat agree here, the mechanics can do those things. On the other hand, they also force strict definitions of mental illnesses on characters. Definitions that are far from a good picture of a real world mental illness, and can as such, ruin some good roleplaying from players who are not going to get shoe-horned into some game designers (or GM) idea of insanity.
100%. One of the most tiresome players I had the misfortune to game with suffered from Pantophobia in a CoC game. It got old very quickly...So my suggestion is that you shouldn't force players into playing insane characters, and the players should know what they are signing up for. Portraying someone with a bipolar disorder realistically is a hell of a job; but can be magnificent if done right. On the other hand, while playing a character with raging dendrophobia who fears twigs and only sleeps in rock houses might be fun, it gets silly fast, which will mean it should only be done if the setting can handle this amount of silliness.