Same "Career" Ranks, Basic Training, Qualification

[Tugun]

So I'm making my Navy Career character using High Guard, and a few different questions come up... This probably applies to every other Book that has similar same service options (haven't looked at the Mercenary book in depth yet, but it might apply to that too).

If I have a character (say, a Crewman, for example) who finishes his current term at O2 rank.

He changes career focus to something else (we'll say Engineering, why not) within the same Naval Career "path".

1/He has the choice of EITHER a Qualification Roll with appropriate mods OR no roll required as long as he has the listed Previous Service requirements, right?

2/If he is/was a certain Rank in his previous term under a different Naval Career branch (i.e. Crewman O2 last term, and new to Engineering this term) does he get the O2 bonus skills for Engineering (if any) just for entering this career branch now or do those skills only apply if he becomes that rank as result of an advancement roll?

3/Does he pick up any prior Rank bonus skills (say if he enters a career branch that has O1+ and he enters at O2 or more.) for this new career branch? Or does he only get bonus skills for ranks he earns while in that particular term?

4/Does a change of Career "branch" (i.e. From Crewman to Engineering as above example) count for earning a new Basic Training 0-level skill or is it just counted as being the same blanket career, and thus only count if he leaves the Navy and take up a non-Naval Career?

5/If you get thrown out/let go from one Navy sub-type (i.e. drummed out of the Imperial Navy only to re-apply to the Subsector or Planetary Navies) does that count for another 0-level skill a la Basic Training? And is there any criteria for NOT being accepted into the naval fold?

(Common-sense stuff like 'Crashed a ship' type mishap would surely make you a candidate for being rejected for any further Naval career i would think.)

 

[BP]

...1/He has the choice of EITHER a Qualification Roll with appropriate mods OR no roll required as long as he has the listed Previous Service requirements, right?...

Right - if he doesn't meet the Previous Service requirements than he may try to meet the qualification roll (except if right out of college - then auto Crewman, but you specifically stated O2 rank I believe). Do keep in mind that there is also the Rank aspect of 'Some of the more exalted careers'. This is reflected in the -1 DM per missing minimum rank! (see pg 6).

...2/If he is/was a certain Rank in his previous term under a different Naval Career branch (i.e. Crewman O2 last term, and new to Engineering this term) does he get the O2 bonus skills for Engineering (if any) just for entering this career branch now or do those skills only apply if he becomes that rank as result of an advancement roll?...

The O2 'advancement' skill was gained as a crewman (Leadership), so I would say no to the Comms-1 skill - because he didn't make rank in that path. This makes even more sense if you looked at higher ranks - he wouldn't get retroactive skills when changing paths. I refer to this as an advancement skill.

This is a little trickier if the character were to somehow make say the Naval Engineer path (from an O2 rank) - since he would immediately jump to O5 rank! This would be an 'advancement' (upon his recent O2 advancement) - the skill could represent self/exceptional training prior to obtaining such a prestigious promotion (then again - maybe he is just lucky and/or well connected).

...3/Does he pick up any prior Rank bonus skills (say if he enters a career branch that has O1+ and he enters at O2 or more.) for this new career branch? Or does he only get bonus skills for ranks he earns while in that particular term?...

I would say the later (see above).

...4/Does a change of Career "branch" (i.e. From Crewman to Engineering as above example) count for earning a new Basic Training 0-level skill or is it just counted as being the same blanket career, and thus only count if he leaves the Navy and take up a non-Naval Career?

I would say so - at least the first time, but then I had a really good super (and vino) - so may not be following that well.

...5/If you get thrown out/let go from one Navy sub-type (i.e. drummed out of the Imperial Navy only to re-apply to the Subsector or Planetary Navies) does that count for another 0-level skill a la Basic Training?

I would say only if they entered a new path or at rank 0 (so they would presumably go thru basic training again) - see pg 6 Navy Type insert about rank transfers...

...And is there any criteria for NOT being accepted into the naval fold?

(Common-sense stuff like 'Crashed a ship' type mishap would surely make you a candidate for being rejected for any further Naval career i would think.)

Yes - but it depends - see pg 6 Navy Type insert at the bottom - Imperial and Subsector navies have standards which reject re-enlistment based on ejections caused by mishaps (though draft may still occur I suppose). Planetary navies are less picky (3 strikes rule) -

• 'Yep - snagged this one right out from the smug Imperial blowhards - wh'da grabbed him up even if he tw'ernt my third cousin's son-in-law. Tell 'em how you smacked up that Monitor with your SDB again son!' (I love this one...)

 

[The Chef]

Tugun wrote:
...2/If he is/was a certain Rank in his previous term under a different Naval Career branch (i.e. Crewman O2 last term, and new to Engineering this term) does he get the O2 bonus skills for Engineering (if any) just for entering this career branch now or do those skills only apply if he becomes that rank as result of an advancement roll?...

The O2 'advancement' skill was gained as a crewman (Leadership), so I would say no to the Comms-1 skill - because he didn't make rank in that path. This makes even more sense if you looked at higher ranks - he wouldn't get retroactive skills when changing paths. I refer to this as an advancement skill.

i house rule this differently if a character changes career and the rank they start on has a rank skill then they get it. it makes sense in my head that they would have the skills necessary for a person of that rank doing that job.

also has anyone worked out how to go through the naval academy, the rules as stated make my little brain hurt[/quote]

 

[CosmicGamer]

Tugun wrote:
...2/If he is/was a certain Rank in his previous term under a different Naval Career branch (i.e. Crewman O2 last term, and new to Engineering this term) does he get the O2 bonus skills for Engineering (if any) just for entering this career branch now or do those skills only apply if he becomes that rank as result of an advancement roll?...

The O2 'advancement' skill was gained as a crewman (Leadership), so I would say no to the Comms-1 skill - because he didn't make rank in that path. This makes even more sense if you looked at higher ranks - he wouldn't get retroactive skills when changing paths. I refer to this as an advancement skill.

i house rule this differently if a character changes career and the rank they start on has a rank skill then they get it. it makes sense in my head that they would have the skills necessary for a person of that rank doing that job.

I can see both points of view. I don't own high guard but in the core book, there are careers that have rank 0 skills so since the character can't be promoted to rank 0 and obtain the skill, I rule the rank skills are obtained any time you are assigned to that position.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Maybe a solution is to let the Player SELECT one of the skills.

He either gets the O2 skill of a Crewman OR the O2 Skill of the Engineer. Player's Choice.

If you give him both, he will be skill bloated and it will encourage people to change career paths often to get the extra skills.

I WOULD give him the 1 Level 0 skill though, that seems reasonable. Again though, you have to watch the skill bloat.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

also has anyone worked out how to go through the naval academy, the rules as stated make my little brain hurt

I never figured it out either, it seems very confusing.

I use the "University" career path in Spica's Career Book 2 and the "OCS" option instead.

(Of course, I wrote it, so it makes a lot more sense to me)

If I understand the Naval Acadamy career, it is just like basic training, you get a bunch of Level 0 skills and still have to go into the Crew sub-career, but you come out as an O1 instead of an E1. I don't like it very much.

 

[CosmicGamer]

you gain these benefits as soon as you attain that rank

So the rank skill would be from your current specialization at the time you obtain the rank.

For rank 0 it would be after basic training is completed and you obtain a specialization.

So now I'm leaning against gaining rank skills when transferring between specialties.

Again, this is based only on the core rulebook, I don't know what high guard states.

 

[BP]

The main benefit of Naval College is to be able to enter into the careers that require commissioned characters (pg 6) - such as Command, Naval Engineering, etc.

My read on Naval College is pretty simple:

• Can only apply in first term - and gets only one attempt.
  
  Pick a college - roll for admission based on college (Support/Pilot...)
  
  ->Failure means go back to normal (i.e. no other penalty - just can't go to college - and can't try again) within Navy career.
  
  Roll for success based on the college.
  
  ->Failure means this term is spent as a Drifter but he is still Navy career path (unless he chooses to change).
  
  Roll for Honours check based on college to pick service skill instead of roll (a perk).

Assuming character was admitted and passed (didn't become drifter) - then character gets (must roll as normal if failed Honours) skill benefit from service skills table (based on naval path = college type) and now is a commissioned officer of rank O1.

Everything else is normal... though the first term doesn't count for mustering out benefits and he loses the chance benefits of Event or Mishap.

Note: that a character could try again for college depending by switching types - if he didn't start in Imperial first. See Navy Type insert on pg 6 - re: not counting previous terms.

(Hope I didn't screw this up too badly!)

 

[tneva82]

If I understand the Naval Acadamy career, it is just like basic training, you get a bunch of Level 0 skills and still have to go into the Crew sub-career, but you come out as an O1 instead of an E1. I don't like it very much.

O1 instead of E1, get basic skills of your specialisation(rather than crewmen) and you got to roll once on the specialisation skill roll rightaway(or choose the skill if you got with honours).

In return no life event though.

 

[dreamingbadger]

also has anyone worked out how to go through the naval academy, the rules as stated make my little brain hurt

As a House rule I give graduates the effect of their graduation roll in skills points which can either be spent services skills from their college or crewman, but can only raise a skill to level 1 (game balance).

I also allow honours graduates a+2 DM on survival and promotion rolls during their mandatory tour as crewman. And they are automatically able to join their "specialisation" if they are promoted in their crewman billet.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I like those houserules (YOINK!)

 

[BP]

Yes - excellent dreamingbadger!

 

[Treebore]

The main benefit of Naval College is to be able to enter into the careers that require commissioned characters (pg 6) - such as Command, Naval Engineering, etc.

My read on Naval College is pretty simple:

• Can only apply in first term - and gets only one attempt.
  
  Pick a college - roll for admission based on college (Support/Pilot...)
  
  ->Failure means go back to normal (i.e. no other penalty - just can't go to college - and can't try again) within Navy career.
  
  Roll for success based on the college.
  
  ->Failure means this term is spent as a Drifter but he is still Navy career path (unless he chooses to change).
  
  Roll for Honours check based on college to pick service skill instead of roll (a perk).

Assuming character was admitted and passed (didn't become drifter) - then character gets (must roll as normal if failed Honours) skill benefit from service skills table (based on naval path = college type) and now is a commissioned officer of rank O1.

Everything else is normal... though the first term doesn't count for mustering out benefits and he loses the chance benefits of Event or Mishap.

Note: that a character could try again for college depending by switching types - if he didn't start in Imperial first. See Navy Type insert on pg 6 - re: not counting previous terms.

(Hope I didn't screw this up too badly!)

I agree, you only get one real shot in real life, may as well make it that way in Trav. I also do not allow for career changes between military services, it can be done in real life, but it isn't always a straight transfer kind of deal, which the rules do not come even close to adequately covering, and I am certainly not going to try and write some up.

So if you get booted out, or quite, the military, I have them either start adventuring, or pick non military careers to try. Assuming they aren't oo injured or too old to be hired on, make the rolls, etc...

 

[Tugun]

The main benefit of Naval College is to be able to enter into the careers that require commissioned characters (pg 6) - such as Command, Naval Engineering, etc.

My read on Naval College is pretty simple:

• Can only apply in first term - and gets only one attempt.
  
  Pick a college - roll for admission based on college (Support/Pilot...)
  
  ->Failure means go back to normal (i.e. no other penalty - just can't go to college - and can't try again) within Navy career.
  
  Roll for success based on the college.
  
  ->Failure means this term is spent as a Drifter but he is still Navy career path (unless he chooses to change).
  
  Roll for Honours check based on college to pick service skill instead of roll (a perk).

Assuming character was admitted and passed (didn't become drifter) - then character gets (must roll as normal if failed Honours) skill benefit from service skills table (based on naval path = college type) and now is a commissioned officer of rank O1.

Everything else is normal... though the first term doesn't count for mustering out benefits and he loses the chance benefits of Event or Mishap.

Note: that a character could try again for college depending by switching types - if he didn't start in Imperial first. See Navy Type insert on pg 6 - re: not counting previous terms.

(Hope I didn't screw this up too badly!)

Actually the Naval College "term" is more like a Term 0. It happens after the character finishes his basic education but BEFORE he goes out into the world to begin his first term.

 

[BP]

Still counts as a term (ie. aging) - just not counted for mustering out benefits...

 

[Tugun]

Always the small print. Okay, some of my characters age just went up 4 years.

lol!

Funny.. Now I'm actually glad some of them failed to be accepted.

 

[BP]

Its your game - maybe some of them got in college at 14!

 

[The Chef]

i run it that they start the academy at 16. 2 years of training then 2 years as crewmen,

but thats my solution

Chef