Shadow Queen
Mongoose
page 153 for the ship and page 154 for the Quote, also no mention of a bio mass
S&P 1st Dec 06 Techno-Mages, 2nd Edition
- Thread starter Shadow Queen
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Neo
Mongoose
Hellhawk said:
The second eidtions rules were designed to encourage multiclassing, which is also why base classes became 10 level as opposed to 20 level affairs, and prestige classes majoratively 5 level as opposed to 10 level.
Characters are to be encouraged to explore multiple routes. There is no reason why a destroyer can only be a character who has all levels in destroyer and technomage. They could have Agent levels, officer levels, scientist levels... etc.. all of which could be useful to a destroyer, or alternately he could have levels in other techno mage prestiges making him more versatile.
Shadow Queen
Mongoose
you cant have a Destroyer cross over into a healer mage class
In my book, classing out of the Technomage classes makes no sense whatsoever for a Technomage, except maybe in rules terms (okay, maybe the Shadow Agent might make sense, but then...).
Why would you want to do anything that keeps you from increasing your mastery of the Tech? Or, in rules terms: Why wold you want to do anything that lets you lose spell points?
And why on Earth would I want to re-train as a Kinetic Grimli if I'm a DESTROYER???
I understand the rationale behind the class level reduction. However, the system breaks down with those classes that need to continue to take specialised class levels to further improve thir abilities because of which they took the class in the first place: technomges - and telepaths. Telepaths are even worse off because, they do not even get a decent prestige class unless they want to be PsiCops.
Rainer
Why would you want to do anything that keeps you from increasing your mastery of the Tech? Or, in rules terms: Why wold you want to do anything that lets you lose spell points?
And why on Earth would I want to re-train as a Kinetic Grimli if I'm a DESTROYER???
I understand the rationale behind the class level reduction. However, the system breaks down with those classes that need to continue to take specialised class levels to further improve thir abilities because of which they took the class in the first place: technomges - and telepaths. Telepaths are even worse off because, they do not even get a decent prestige class unless they want to be PsiCops.
Rainer
Shadow Queen
Mongoose
Hellhawk i agree with you; why not convert the stats from the 1st edition to the 2nd edition instead of a rewrite?
Neo
Mongoose
Hellhawk said:
Firstly because
a) noone is born a technomage, and not all are traine dyoung.. many techno-mages were other things first.
b) because not all technomages seek to become the ultimate techno-mage with more spell points and powers than god. Their are varying degrees of capability, they are all devoted to the rules and beliefs of the order, but they all certainly do not have the same level of competency or potential. Some have other interests.
c) Because it may mesh well with the unfolding story of the character in question... this is roleplaying after all, not the land of the ultimate munchkins heh.
And as noted previously there are options for cross classing with other techno mage classes.
Well lets see they are predominantly the most capable and skill crafters of magic items and ships.. what destroyer wouldnt find it convenient to make powerful technomaghical items or a ship that would make even a shadow vessel tremble.... or do you not consider these things something a Destroyer would find valuable? Life and life paths of people and characters are not black and white...
There is not only one way to look at each thing, one route of approach, one indelible meaning that is etched in stone. To all things there are an infinite shades of grey.
hope this helps.
@Neo's earlier post, in order:
(a) It may make sense before becoming a Technomage, right. However, the character wll then be as good as out of play until her Becoming. I find it hard to see how gallivanting around the galaxy might mesh with trying to prepare for the reception of the Tech. I assume it could be done, though, if we argue that someone received their calling late in life and was not chosen at an early age and maybe came with a few friends in tow, which the Technomage teacher would need to take care of, too. Could even be interesting. Doesn't help much it the character concept calls for the character to be chosen as a child, though.
(b) Yep, it MIGHT. I wouldn't want to see it as the RULE, though. Judging from the mages we've known so far, it might have worked with Alwyn, who would probably have taken a few Diplomat levels after his retirement. It might also have worked with Elizar and Razeel, who might have sacrificed Technomage power in lieu of the even greater Shadow power. I can't magine Galen (unless you argue that he stepped off the Destroyer path between the novels and Crusade) or Elric "diversifying", "shopping around" what Techomagery might have to offer, though - let alone Kell, or anyone from his school.
(c) One again, it MAY, but it shouldn't HAVE TO. And, without wanting to start another argument about this: There has always been a certain amount of "Munchkinism" built into any D20 system. While I agree that B5 2nd Edition has reduced this in a very agreeable way, it is the Technomages as such (followed by the telepaths) who, by their very nature, come closest to this.
(Come to think of it, some of the more difficult specialist spells become a lot harder to cast with the reduction of class levels - and remember that having to meet the requirements for more than one prestige class is a lot harder than having to meet only one.)
And if I am a fully-trained Destroyer, I can destroy Shadow ships with a mere word - no need for tinkering with technical tidbits like craft or items. How BORING. What next? Want me to become a diplomat???
Yep, not all things are black and white. But some are. Some character concepts don't allow space for multiple diversification.
Now IF you say that reducing the levels to 10 is a means of generally reducing character power and thus strengthen game balance, then I understand at least the rationale behind the decision. It just doesn't necessarily make sense from the story point of view.
Rainer
(a) It may make sense before becoming a Technomage, right. However, the character wll then be as good as out of play until her Becoming. I find it hard to see how gallivanting around the galaxy might mesh with trying to prepare for the reception of the Tech. I assume it could be done, though, if we argue that someone received their calling late in life and was not chosen at an early age and maybe came with a few friends in tow, which the Technomage teacher would need to take care of, too. Could even be interesting. Doesn't help much it the character concept calls for the character to be chosen as a child, though.
(b) Yep, it MIGHT. I wouldn't want to see it as the RULE, though. Judging from the mages we've known so far, it might have worked with Alwyn, who would probably have taken a few Diplomat levels after his retirement. It might also have worked with Elizar and Razeel, who might have sacrificed Technomage power in lieu of the even greater Shadow power. I can't magine Galen (unless you argue that he stepped off the Destroyer path between the novels and Crusade) or Elric "diversifying", "shopping around" what Techomagery might have to offer, though - let alone Kell, or anyone from his school.
(c) One again, it MAY, but it shouldn't HAVE TO. And, without wanting to start another argument about this: There has always been a certain amount of "Munchkinism" built into any D20 system. While I agree that B5 2nd Edition has reduced this in a very agreeable way, it is the Technomages as such (followed by the telepaths) who, by their very nature, come closest to this.
(Come to think of it, some of the more difficult specialist spells become a lot harder to cast with the reduction of class levels - and remember that having to meet the requirements for more than one prestige class is a lot harder than having to meet only one.)
And if I am a fully-trained Destroyer, I can destroy Shadow ships with a mere word - no need for tinkering with technical tidbits like craft or items. How BORING. What next? Want me to become a diplomat???
Yep, not all things are black and white. But some are. Some character concepts don't allow space for multiple diversification.
Now IF you say that reducing the levels to 10 is a means of generally reducing character power and thus strengthen game balance, then I understand at least the rationale behind the decision. It just doesn't necessarily make sense from the story point of view.
Rainer
The thing is Technomages (even in first edition) werenh't really designed to work in a standard campaign - they're meant to be used in a fully TM setup or as NPCs. I'd never, ever let a PC be a Technomage under any other circumstance.
To a slightly lesser degree, Telepaths benefit from being run in a pure Psi Corps campaign as well.
Just because a character class/race is available, it doesn't mean that players should use them...
As it stands, you can generate a Narn Telepath if you dig in the right bits of the rule books... Should never happen.
To a slightly lesser degree, Telepaths benefit from being run in a pure Psi Corps campaign as well.
Just because a character class/race is available, it doesn't mean that players should use them...
As it stands, you can generate a Narn Telepath if you dig in the right bits of the rule books... Should never happen.
Hellhawk said:
To give rules for NPC characters?
Anyway I have just 1 Q regarding techno-mages(not related to the article but no point creating another thread for this). Reading the article I noticed that techo-mages get their powers from devices which were created by...shadows???
Ummm...Where does this info come? Can't remember anything in the show hinting at this. I would guess techno-mage book trilogy might be right answer.
Basicly: How canonical information this is or is it fan fluff written to fill up background for techno-mages?
That's what the NPC section in the Rulebook is for. Telepaths are clearly presented as PCs, and as such should be used without restrictions.tneva82 said:
You're correct. The trilogy was written from a JMS outline, and so has to be considered canonical. There IS another thread here somewhere that delves deeper into this. some of the information given in Crusade already points in this direction.
Rainer
Hellhawk said:
I'm pretty certain that the B5 RPG doesn't present any character classes as NPC only as that is a very D&D attitude
Common sense however applies. It is only sensible for PC telepaths in a normal adventuring groups to be P5s or there about. If you want more powerful telepaths (and let's face it, most players would want to if they were being teeps...) then it is better to have a more level playing field and run a Psi Corps campaign.
In the 1st Edition Technomage prestige class Kinetic Grimli, they had a Pinnace Crafting Ability at 10th level. This seems to have been eliminated from the 2nd edition version.
Is there something planned to replace this (perhaps a Pinnace Crafter Prestige Class) or a separate set of rules, or something else?
Or am I missing something...
Ron
Is there something planned to replace this (perhaps a Pinnace Crafter Prestige Class) or a separate set of rules, or something else?
Or am I missing something...
Ron
Neo
Mongoose
seawolf69 said:
It wasnt an oversight so much as a design choice.
They no longer have Pinnace Crafting as it doesnt really need to be an Trait. As the ship builders manual revealed, shipbuilding is simply a matter of skills and resources, and as we know only the Kinetic Grimli make the pinnaces it didn't really need to be a trait as opposed to just something the Grimli can all do with adequate skills.
The only difference with the Kinetic Grimli is that they have access to a design that noone else does, nothing else. Any Kinetic Grimli with adequate skills could build a pinnace, and the Grimli as a whole all have access to the TM resources.
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