Runequest What were you thinking

[SmegmaLord]

I'll copy you on anything we kick out.....

..wheres that dusty box from 1983....

CHRIS

 

[Ahokko]

Hi guys!
I'm sorry, but I agree totally with Grilnog (not the years though). And also I can understand his aggressive style. I felt VERY disappointed after waiting so much for the new version of my favorite rules.

Yeah, felt the same; some of the trendy feature of DD was integrated into RQ. My reaction was to buy the good ol' ones (GW version) from ebay.

SO, I've been thinking about how would DD player feel if;

- there would be no initiative roll, just a number based on your DEX
- no feats (your skills are in your skill number, just describe them the different way)
- only the skills you use go up in levels
- the book would have been published in black and white colors, with amateur illustrations

Zeerz,
Aho & co

 

[Greg Smith]

To be fair to Lt. Rasczak, Grilnog was being extremely obnoxious.

Even his post title was confrontational: "Runequest What were you thinking" (sic).

But To come out with an old system saying that you have fixed it. When all you did was simplify the strike rank and add D20 feats called "legendary ablities"

Maybe that's all that needed fixing. Mongoose also appear to have made combat a little less deadly (at least in the basic iteration). They have also gone to the trouble of making it OGL.

come on guy's let's be honest. you knew that there was a fan base. So you went to WOWC bought the rights so you could make some money by changing the price at the release date.

I'm sure Mongoose knew there was a fan-base - part of Mongoose's strategy is to bring back old favourites (cf Paranoia).

I'm sure Mongoose didn't go to World of Warcraft to get the rights. I'm also also sure they intended to make some money even before they changed the price.

An ex Mongoose fan

But not a big enough fan to register on these forums before today or even express a positive opinion about any other Mongoose games.

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

Thanks Greg, and to everyone else who seem to have missed it - I did apologise.

1973 was a pre-release print, only available in limited quatities to people attending one specific convention which is why I quoted 1974 as the First print (which it was).

It just bugs me when people seem to criticize for the sake of moaning.

Don't forget Mongoose has taken quite a risk releasing MRQ, and very few 'Fans' seem grateful.

It seems to me that for some reason a lot of people seem to think its alright for some to be rude and not others.

 

[Dort Onion]

While I didnt start playing RPG's til 1980 but I dont see the 'have played 50 RPGs' comment as odd or over the top

By the end of the 80's I owned over 50 RPGs and have played lots more - <insert diety of choice> knows how many by now.

If you want a list of the ones I rem (this will be wildly incomplete)

Note -these are only the ones I have either played or run - I own 40+ more that I've never tried....

Runequest (2,3,MRQ)
D+D (Basic, Expert, AD+D, 2E, 3E, 3.5E)
Shadowrun (2,3,4)
CoC (2,3,4,5,5.5) - also own 1st ed
Dragonquest
Marauder 2017
Battlelords of the 23rd Century
Top Secret
Spycraft (1,2)
Villians + Vigilantes
Tunnels and Trolls
MERP
Rolemaster
Judge Dredd (GW)
Daemon
Stormbringer
Corum/Hawkmoon
Champions
Hero
GURPS (2,3)
Golden Heroes
Marvel Super Heroes (TSR)
DC Heroes
Chill
Beyond the Supernatural
TMNT (1,2, After the Bomb)
Palladium Fantasy RPG (2,3)
Legend of the Five Rings (1,2,3)
7th Sea
Twerps
Star Wars (WEG, d20)
Twilight 2000 (1,2)
Traveller (1,Mega,TNE)
2300 (1,2)
Amber Diceless
Ars Magica (2,3,4)
Vampire (1,2)
Werewolf (1,2)
Wraith
Mage
Streetfighter - white wolf's best RPG
Aberrant
Dark Conspiracy
Cyberpunk (and 2020)
Dr Who
Timelord
Timelords
Dream Park
EarthDawn
Empire of the Petal Throne
En Garde
Gamma World
Justice Inc.
Kult
Buffy
Lejendary Adventures
Dangerous Journeys
Millenium's End
Over the Edge
Paranoia
Pendragon (2,3,4,5)
Pheonix Command
Quest
Shatterzone
Skyrealms of Journe - quivering trid nodes!
Talislanta
Teenagers from outer space
Toon
Tales from the Floating Vagabond
TORG
Warhammer Fantasy
All Flesh must be eaten
Deadlands
Albedo
Star Trek (FASA)
Witchcraft
Conspiracy X
Dragon Warriors
Aftermath
Lace and Steel
Aliens the RPG
Mutazoids
Space Opera
Expendables
Mechwarrior
Mekton II
Nightlife
Desperados
Dark Continent
Macho Women with Guns
It came from the Late Late Late Show
Legendary Lives
Recon
Bushido
Once upon a time in the West
Time and Time Again
High Colonies
Heroes Unlimited
Advanced Fighting Fantasy

Thats about 100 without splitting D+D, GURPS, or any of the other biggies into components....

Thats also with only a few minutes work - give me a few hours and that list will expand....

Some of us are just more sad than you could possibly imagine

Dort Onion
Terminal Gamer

 

[atgxtg]

Thanks Greg, and to everyone else who seem to have missed it - I did apologise.

I saw. I won't go after you again for that previous post.

1973 was a pre-release print, only available in limited quatities to people attending one specific convention which is why I quoted 1974 as the First print (which it was).

I think I brought up the 1974 date, and that it was only one year off from 33 years. Close enough to let slide.

It just bugs me when people seem to criticize for the sake of moaning.

Don't forget Mongoose has taken quite a risk releasing MRQ, and very few 'Fans' seem grateful.

Well, let me restate my view on MRQ. I believe that the game was adventised as one thing, using the RQ name, along with those of Stafford & Perrin to lure in the old RQ fans into buying a game which isn't RQ.

I feel like I was cheated.

I do not conider MRQ a good game, let alone RQ. The game looks like it was thrown together with a buch of rules and examples that contradict each other and the designer. Apparenlty all the 11th hour changes didn't make it into the book, but the 11th hour increase in price from $19.95 to $24.95 had no problem getting on the back cover. had In all honestey I can't think of too many games I like less. THe fact that Moongoose paid for and used the RQ logo on this game doesn't make me feel grateful, it makes me angry. I don't see anything to be grateful about.

I probably haven't expressed my real view on the game, out of an attempt to be somewhat civil. but it isn't far from Glirnog's. See me off the board and all say what I really think of MRQ. It is nothing complementary. I wish Mongoose had left RQ alone. Grateful? I wish I could get a refund. I wish I could go after Mongoose's marketing department for false advertising ("devloped under the watchful eyes of" isn't the same thing as "played a couple of times by").

So IMO if someone isn't happy and want to get his $25 worth of griping, about the game, that's fine.

It seems to me that for some reason a lot of people seem to think its alright for some to be rude and not others.

I think there is a big difference between making honest comments about a game, even if they are unflattering, and making personal attacks on a person.

I've been very vocal in criticizing MRQ, and MOngooses's decisions with MRQ. I'm probably been the most vocal critic here. That said, I haven't gone and insulted Matt or the other Mongooses.

Even if we don't all agree about MRQ, we shouldn't be abusive and insultting. It just makes things worse.

 

[Rurik]

While I didnt start playing RPG's til 1980 but I dont see the 'have played 50 RPGs' comment as odd or over the top

By the end of the 80's I owned over 50 RPGs and have played lots more - <insert diety of choice> knows how many by now.

If you want a list of the ones I rem (this will be wildly incomplete)

Note -these are only the ones I have either played or run - I own 40+ more that I've never tried....

Wow, Quite a list. "quivering trid nodes" indeed! (Loved Jorune).

No Space 1889? A classic. Also perhaps forgotten is Boot Hill (my personal favorite TSR system ever - VERY deadly).

Also, being around for FGU, no Bunnies and Burrows? :wink:

 

[HyrumOWC]

Ah the call of profit.

I'll never understand the hatred that the word "profit" generates in some corners of RPG fandom.

Lest we all forget, Mongoose is a business, whose goal is profit and not high art.

Hyrum.

 

[Rurik]

Ah the call of profit.

I'll never understand the hatred that the word "profit" generates in some corners of RPG fandom.

Lest we all forget, Mongoose is a business, whose goal is profit and not high art.

Hyrum.

I don't think anyone minds paying for their games. It is the feeling, right or wrong, that one is being milked for more money than is necessary, that irks some people. And some of the decisions Mongoose has made (last minute price change, a 25$ core rulebook and a $25 96 page companion many see as a necessary part of the rules) give that impression, rightly or wrongly.

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

I really like the new RQ (I'm not even going to call it MRQ as I think thats an unfair label).

I'm getting ready to run my first game of it tonight actually (fortunately I have Glorantha reference material coming out of the wazoo).

My Players each have a copy of the Core book as well, and they are all really keen too.

With regards to the Companion & pricing, a good chunk of the price of any book is the printing (especially in Hardback) no Mongoose COULD have happlily put all of the Companion in with the Core rulea - maximizing their profit (only one lot of printing costs) making the book slightly cheaper, but making more profit for themselves in the process.

It is also a market trend, that most (if not all) RPG's are produced in a modular format - I see nothing wrong with it, to be honest its preferable.

 

[atgxtg]

Ah the call of profit.

I'll never understand the hatred that the word "profit" generates in some corners of RPG fandom.

Lest we all forget, Mongoose is a business, whose goal is profit and not high art.

Hyrum.

Yes. But that cuts both ways. It means that all of us who boguht MRQ are customers. So if a customer buys a product and doesn't like it, he can complain to the company. If I buy a DVDS player and it is supposed to play divx but doesn't, I can complain, or exchange it for a model that does. If I buy a game that doesn't live up to it's claims, it gets marked down as personal tastes and I'm stuck with the game. It's the same with all books though, not just RPGs.

I thik the p-word has such a bad rep among fans is because there are products that were of questionable quality releaseled just to make a fast buck. TSR's Radiers of the Lost Ark RPG leaps to mind (perhaps the worse RPG even unleashed? I'm still not convinced Spawn of Fashawn is a serious attempt at an RPG game. Especially in the OGL age, where every company produces a gldiator book. Some are good, some are not , some are just a waste of paper.

THat is one of the drawbacks of OGL. Just because anyone and everyone can write a game supplement does mean that they should. OGL ensures no standards for quality. Hence cries of profiteering.

 

[mthomason]

(fortunately I have Glorantha reference material coming out of the wazoo).

Sounds very uncomfortable to me. Perhaps you should see a doctor? :lol:

 

[Vadrus]

I don't think anyone minds paying for their games. It is the feeling, right or wrong, that one is being milked for more money than is necessary, that irks some people. And some of the decisions Mongoose has made (last minute price change, a 25$ core rulebook and a $25 96 page companion many see as a necessary part of the rules) give that impression, rightly or wrongly.

Especially when you can get 'complete' (i.e. rules and background) for many games for less than this. A prime example is the Cadwallon RPG that arrived in the mail today, 300+ full colour pages with illustrations or photos on every page for less than the MRQ core and companion.

In fairness I should point out that the Cadwallon RPG is taking some stick on the forums for unclear rules and language, though this is mostly down to it being a translation from the original French.


Vadrus

(That takes my RPG collection to 323 seperate systems :shock: I need to get out more )

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

Its not a 'fast buck' though, when you take out Printing Costs, Writers and Artists fees, and finally Retailer/Wholesaler cuts - you would be surprised at whats (not) left.

Not so much 'fast buck' as 'fast few cents' . . . . . .

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

(fortunately I have Glorantha reference material coming out of the wazoo).

Sounds very uncomfortable to me. Perhaps you should see a doctor? :lol:

I tried once Matt, the Doctor pulled up a chair and started reading . . . .

 

[mthomason]

My Players each have a copy of the Core book as well, and they are all really keen too.

Thats one of the big advantages I find with the price. Most hardback books are going to cost you more than this one. I won't argue there's some RPGs that have even more pages at that price, but I still feel it makes it an attractive proposition for an alternative core rulebook to the d20 one.

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

I don't think anyone minds paying for their games. It is the feeling, right or wrong, that one is being milked for more money than is necessary, that irks some people. And some of the decisions Mongoose has made (last minute price change, a 25$ core rulebook and a $25 96 page companion many see as a necessary part of the rules) give that impression, rightly or wrongly.

Especially when you can get 'complete' (i.e. rules and background) for many games for less than this. A prime example is the Cadwallon RPG that arrived in the mail today, 300+ full colour pages with illustrations and photos on every page for less than the MRQ core and companion.


Vadrus

(That takes my RPG collection to 323 seperate systems :shock: I need to get out more )

MRQ + Companion = $49.90 full RRP.

Cadwallon = $60 full RRP.

I can get Mongoose Books on discount, so thats an unfair comparison.

Anyway its a different Kettle of fish really, Cadwallon is a 'lost leader' as its designed so you spend loads of cash on Miniatures.

Also, there is a Companion on the way for Cadwallon, plus you need the floorplans, etc, etc . . . . . .

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

My Players each have a copy of the Core book as well, and they are all really keen too.

Thats one of the big advantages I find with the price. Most hardback books are going to cost you more than this one. I won't argue there's some RPGs that have even more pages at that price, but I still feel it makes it an attractive proposition for an alternative core rulebook to the d20 one.

I've been waffling on about RQ to my current group for ages, but they wouldn't 'jump in' to a game where you couldn't readily get a hold of the product.

Now we have a new Edition, I got my way

 

[iamtim]

Its not a 'fast buck' though, when you take out Printing Costs, Writers and Artists fees, and finally Retailer/Wholesaler cuts - you would be surprised at whats (not) left.

Yeah. You don't publish RPGs to get rich. You publish RPGs because you love it, and if you make enough to support your lifestyle without living off of huge heaps of credit, you're doing DAMNED good.

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

Its not a 'fast buck' though, when you take out Printing Costs, Writers and Artists fees, and finally Retailer/Wholesaler cuts - you would be surprised at whats (not) left.

Yeah. You don't publish RPGs to get rich. You publish RPGs because you love it, and if you make enough to support your lifestyle without living off of huge heaps of credit, you're doing DAMNED good.

I've been writing for years, mostly Fan stuff.

I am JUST at the point now where I MIGHT start making a little money at it.