Runequest game style

[camocoffey]

Our group has just completed its first substantial adventure using the new RQ rules. We like them a lot. Combat is very, very nasty; so healing is going to be essential if you're expecting a lot of fighting. My character has proven to be exceptionally handy: he's a sorcerer combat medic, using Treat Wounds and Regenerate, backed up with a couple of useful Common Magic spells, like Becalm and Cauterise. One of the significant advantages of using sorcery for healing is that you can use it at range, so you don't even need to be in the thick of it, like your classic Cleric from old school D&D.

 

[stacktrace]

Our group has just completed its first substantial adventure using the new RQ rules. We like them a lot. Combat is very, very nasty; so healing is going to be essential if you're expecting a lot of fighting. My character has proven to be exceptionally handy: he's a sorcerer combat medic, using Treat Wounds and Regenerate, backed up with a couple of useful Common Magic spells, like Becalm and Cauterise. One of the significant advantages of using sorcery for healing is that you can use it at range, so you don't even need to be in the thick of it, like your classic Cleric from old school D&D.

Cool to hear. I am working on setting up available cults, guilds and factions before jumping in. How much of that did your group have before playing its first game? It seems to be very essential to have several such defined up front.

 

[Nidhogg]

I have been reading Jack Vance's The Dying Earth for the first time and really inspired by the crazy situations the characters in that book find themselves in, as well as the strong sense of magic and the unknown confronting them.

RQII should work well for this but I thought I'd chip in at this point and recommend that if you really want a full blown Dying Earth experience try to get your hands on the Dying Earth RPG... it is out of print but there are still some copies around or otherwise PDFs. The Dying Earth feel really permeates the whole game to a degree that in pretty impressive... worth checking out.

 

[hanszurcher]

...if you really want a full blown Dying Earth experience try to get your hands on the Dying Earth RPG... it is out of print but there are still some copies around or otherwise PDFs.

If your looking into a Dying Earth game you've just made your luck roll. Pelgrane press has reacquired the Dying Earth license with intent to publish.

More info here

 

[PhilHibbs]

Question to those running games - any balance issues? Have you tried out either Wrack or Palsy, or have you tried more than one magic system e.g. Divine vs Sorcery, and how do they stack up against each other and against Common magic?

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Sorcery generally whips the other magic systems quite early on in a character's career (less so later). However, the system isn't meant to be 100% balanced, so it's OK.

Common Magic isn't the route to magical über-power... but doesn't pretend to be either.

 

[Nidhogg]

...if you really want a full blown Dying Earth experience try to get your hands on the Dying Earth RPG... it is out of print but there are still some copies around or otherwise PDFs.

If your looking into a Dying Earth game you've just made your luck roll. Pelgrane press has reacquired the Dying Earth license with intent to publish.

More info here

Sweet thanks for the info Hans.

 

[d(sqrt(-1))]

I have been reading Jack Vance's The Dying Earth for the first time and really inspired by the crazy situations the characters in that book find themselves in, as well as the strong sense of magic and the unknown confronting them.

RQII should work well for this but I thought I'd chip in at this point and recommend that if you really want a full blown Dying Earth experience try to get your hands on the Dying Earth RPG... it is out of print but there are still some copies around or otherwise PDFs. The Dying Earth feel really permeates the whole game to a degree that in pretty impressive... worth checking out.

I'd second this (speaking as a playtester for DE!).

Also, make sure that you read "The Eyes of the Overworld", "Cugel's Saga" and "Rhialto the Marvellous" after you finish Dying Earth. Also by Jack Vance, and slightly different in tone to the earlier DE, but great books. After those, you should, of course, read everything else he wrote! (Demon Princes (SF) and Planet of Adventure (SF/Fantasy) are my other favourites).

cheers,

Mark

 

[Ultor]

Question to those running games - any balance issues? Have you tried out either Wrack or Palsy, or have you tried more than one magic system e.g. Divine vs Sorcery, and how do they stack up against each other and against Common magic?

Wrack has proved very powerful in our game because it keeps on going (as long as the PC keeps her concentration going) and the PC has all sorts of plans for Combining it when she can get her hands on another Grimoire. It is clearly more useful than Disruption, although no PC has yet bought more points in that now that it's a progressive spell. I might give them an NPC with Disruption 4 and see how that stacks up. Our Humakti isn't yet able to get Sever Spirit and our storm worshiper hasn't yet got a lightning spell of any sort to provide comparison with Divine Magic.

As with most other magic, though, it can be ineffective against an opponent with high Persistence. Our wracking PC kept trying it against a pesky Newtling shaman, finally got through and used it to force him to surrender. At which point she dropped the wrack and he promptly double-crossed her (again). So the Humakti PC had to hit him with a good old-fashioned sword...

 

[stacktrace]

I'd second this (speaking as a playtester for DE!).

Also, make sure that you read "The Eyes of the Overworld", "Cugel's Saga" and "Rhialto the Marvellous" after you finish Dying Earth. Also by Jack Vance, and slightly different in tone to the earlier DE, but great books. After those, you should, of course, read everything else he wrote! (Demon Princes (SF) and Planet of Adventure (SF/Fantasy) are my other favourites).

cheers,

Mark

Thanks Mark, I am halfway through Cugel's Saga at the moment, such a memorable character I cannot believe I am just getting to know. What I like about the series isn't so much the specifics of the Dying Earth world itself, but rather how magical and unpredictable the world is, and where you can find completely different situations, cultures and adventures around each corner.

I am becoming more a fan of using RQ2 the more I let my ideas and digestion of the rules simmer. I was a big fan of WH FRPG growing up, and it really seems the designers of that game were influenced by the early BRP ruleset. But I like the magic system in RQ better, as well as characters that can actually hit with their weapons at low level, rather than the 30-40% base chance WH FRPG characters typically begin with.

I am having a hard time readjusting my thinking after many years of d20 roleplaying where every rule and situation was covered. Reading posts by the designers on this board seems to show a favoring of keeping the rules lean and letting the GM make judgement calls as they come up. I like that approach, but having a hard time not having my hand held through the rules.

My biggest challenge right now is creating/borrowing cults/guilds/factions. I wish there had been more examples in the rulebook. I intend to get the Gloranthia Cults book when it comes out, just for reference and borrowing ideas from, even though I do not intend to play in Gloranthia.

 

[sdavies2720]

...I am having a hard time readjusting my thinking after many years of d20 roleplaying where every rule and situation was covered. Reading posts by the designers on this board seems to show a favoring of keeping the rules lean and letting the GM make judgement calls as they come up. I like that approach, but having a hard time not having my hand held through the rules....

As you and your players adjust to this style of rules, you will find that there is another benefit: Everyone becomes focused on the world, GM, and characters, rather than on the next supplement to come out with shiney new things.

I've found that rather than relying on the books to answer everything, my gaming group gets more involved in creating the world. And we focus on keeping the rulings world-consistent, rather than rule-system consistent.

It was a revelation to me because when I was a young GM, I always wished for a 'complete' rule system, so I wouldn't have to make these judgements. But seeing what comes of that approach, I very much appreciate Pete & Loz' lighter rule approach.

Steve

 

[kintire]

Question to those running games - any balance issues? Have you tried out either Wrack or Palsy, or have you tried more than one magic system e.g. Divine vs Sorcery, and how do they stack up against each other and against Common magic

The specialist magic systems are supposed to be better than Common Magic, and they are. They require more investment though. Wrack works quite well: at base it does respectable, reliable damage. Somewhat less than a melee fighter but with only the one roll. It can be made devastating, for example Combined with Damage Boosting and multitargetted, but that takes a while to get going.

As you and your players adjust to this style of rules, you will find that there is another benefit: Everyone becomes focused on the world, GM, and characters, rather than on the next supplement to come out with shiney new things.

:roll:

System elitism aside, it has a feeling of realism that works well for grittier backgrounds like Dying Earth.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Wrack works quite well: at base it does respectable, reliable damage. Somewhat less than a melee fighter but with only the one roll. It can be made devastating, for example Combined with Damage Boosting and multitargetted, but that takes a while to get going.

I seem to remember that Combine and Multispell are specifically not allowed together, although I can't find it in the rules, I might be mistaken on that. I like the Damage Enhancement idea for a single target quick kill, though. I'd only though of Damage Enhancement as affecting weapons, but now I see it also mentions offensive spells. There's only two candidates in the basic rules, though, Wrack and Smother. Unless you can cast Damage Enhancement on a Common Magic or Divine spell. Not that there are many candidates there either, only Fireblade, Hand of Death, and True (Weapon). Fireblade says that the weapon can't benefit from any other damage-enhancing spell, but nothing says that the Fireblade spell itself can't have Damage Enhancement cast on it. After all, 1d10+6 is better than a flat 10. You need to get up to 2d8 damage before a large Damage Enhancement on its own is better than an Enhanced Fireblade.

True (Weapon) doesn't say that the weapon can't have any other spells on it, so you could cast it with a Targets manipulation, one D.E. on the weapon and one D.E. on the True (Weapon) spell. Great Sword, 2d8, doubled, maximized, 32 damage + Damage Bonus. Splat. Oh, and maybe you could add a third Target, the person wielding it, for a maximised damage bonus as well. You need 71% skill, though, so if you only have say 51% then you would have to cast it on a 2h Heavy Mace, War Maul, Moon Axe, etc. for 24 damage + max bonus.

And yeah, I know, "the rules aren't written for munchkins", but there are munchkins out there that will try this crap. And why not? It's a very God-Learnerish thing to do. And if you can't cast D.E. on a Divine spell, I bet there's a God Learner school working on making it possible.

 

[mallard]

Different game systems are better/worse for different game styles. I am interested in Runequest 2, but wonder if it would be a good fit for a classic extended dungeon delve playstyle.

Can anyone who has played a long time give me an indication of the game style Runequest is best at representing?

Thank you in advance.

I run a rune level RQ2 campaign (old 1980 RQ2) and I did not feel comfortable putting my players through long dungeons until they reached rune level. Lethality is just to high for the players to survive a dungeon longer than 5 or 10 rooms prior to rune level.

However, now that the players are rune level I am running them through a long dungeon (old god learner ruin) and it is working great.

 

[Rungard]

Hey Mallard :!:

Are you interested in sharing that dungeon? I have developed a little old God Learner ruin myself, so we could exchange ideas. Send me a pm if you are interested!

BTW, where is your campaign set?

 

[mallard]

Hey Mallard :!:

Are you interested in sharing that dungeon? I have developed a little old God Learner ruin myself, so we could exchange ideas. Send me a pm if you are interested!

BTW, where is your campaign set?

My campaign is set in the 3rd age in Jonstown.

I am using the excellent rotating dungeon map from Goodman Games DCC# 50 which I think fits in with god learner technology. I didn't feel that the rest of that module fit RQ2 so I tossed it and wrote my own scenario for this cool map.

The whole idea of the scenario was to create an extended dungeon crawl and introduce the demonology rules from White Dwarf into my campaign.

The god learners seemed like a perfect conduit for this because they were known to consort with demons.

I am not sure if my gaming style appeals to you but here is the introduction and scenario hook:

Summary:
Over 700 years ago the God Learners discovered a powerful grimoire of demonology called the Necronomicon. This book revealed the secrets of summoning mighty demons and forcing them to do your bidding. However, the book was dangerous because the beings summoned were not easily controlled and sometimes killed the summoners. Therefore a large tower with a four ringed vault beneath was constructed by the God Learners so that they could continue to experiment with the Necronomicon without the risk that a demon could escape into the world. This vault is called the Vault of the Rings.

During the Downfall of the God Learners the tower was reduced to rubble by a great wyrm and shortly thereafter the Necronomicon was forgotten.

In present times, the Lhankor Mhy Sage Scientia has discovered ancient God Learner documents at a dig in Esrolia that show the location of the Vault of the Rings. Scientia doesn’t know what the Necronomicon is, only that the God Learners considered it so important that they build an entire tower and vault to protect it. Unfortunately, Scientia’s trusted initiate Ziff was a Lunar spy and he sent word to the lunars about the Necronomicon. The Lunars ambushed Scientia’s expedition on its way back to Jonstown and killed everyone except Ziff and Scientia. Scientia tried to defend the documents but his leg was amputated and he was forced to use a truestone to teleport back to Jonstown.

The Wedding:
The adventure begins in the Jonstown temple to Orlanth where an important wedding ceremony is being performed by the high priest Pious the Plump for the son of the Jonstown mayor – Lyris Goodspeech and the daughter of Kendy a Yemalio priest from the Sun Dome temple. The groom is Osric and the bride is Valinda. The temple is packed with spectators from sun dome and the local Orlanthi who have come to witness this important event. There are so many people that the benches had to be removed from the court yard area to provide room for all of spectators to stand.

Suddenly the ceremony is interrupted by a loud crack followed by the smell of ozone in the air as the Lhankor Mhy Sage Scientia uses a guided teleport spell from a truestone to teleport into the temple directly behind the bride and groom. The bride screams upon seeing Scientia because most of his right leg is missing and he is bleeding profusely. The groom is so shocked by the spectacle that he slips and falls in Scientia’s blood.

People rush to Scientia’s aid and carry him to Pious’s bedroom where healing can commence.

After Scientia’s bleeding is brought under control and a regrow limb is applied to his leg, he is able to tell his tale. The room is cleared except for the party, Pious, Lyris (the mayor) and Kendy. Scienta explains that he found a map to a great and powerful God Learner artifact at a dig on Esrolian coast and that he was betrayed to the Lunars by his trusted initiate Ziff. The Lunars ambushed his party on its way to the God Learners site and killed everyone except him. He was wounded but fortunately he had the truestone which his friend Pious had given him with the guided teleportation spell. Luckily he committed the map to memory and hid a drawing of the artifact. [Show Book Picture]

The party is asked to undertake this quest immediately because the Lunars cannot be allowed to get their hands on this powerful artifact. Scienta goes on to explain that the party can get to the site within 5 days on fast horses and it will take the Lunars about the same amount of time to get there.

 

[daxos232]

Thanks for the tip, I will give it a try RAW first and will break out the poker chips.

What is "RAW"?

 

[PhilHibbs]

What is "RAW"?

Rules As Written

 

[daxos232]

Rules As Written

Thank you.

 

[mallard]

I'd second this (speaking as a playtester for DE!).

Also, make sure that you read "The Eyes of the Overworld", "Cugel's Saga" and "Rhialto the Marvellous" after you finish Dying Earth. Also by Jack Vance, and slightly different in tone to the earlier DE, but great books. After those, you should, of course, read everything else he wrote! (Demon Princes (SF) and Planet of Adventure (SF/Fantasy) are my other favourites).

cheers,

Mark

Thanks Mark, I am halfway through Cugel's Saga at the moment, such a memorable character I cannot believe I am just getting to know. What I like about the series isn't so much the specifics of the Dying Earth world itself, but rather how magical and unpredictable the world is, and where you can find completely different situations, cultures and adventures around each corner.

I am becoming more a fan of using RQ2 the more I let my ideas and digestion of the rules simmer. I was a big fan of WH FRPG growing up, and it really seems the designers of that game were influenced by the early BRP ruleset. But I like the magic system in RQ better, as well as characters that can actually hit with their weapons at low level, rather than the 30-40% base chance WH FRPG characters typically begin with.

I am having a hard time readjusting my thinking after many years of d20 roleplaying where every rule and situation was covered. Reading posts by the designers on this board seems to show a favoring of keeping the rules lean and letting the GM make judgement calls as they come up. I like that approach, but having a hard time not having my hand held through the rules.

My biggest challenge right now is creating/borrowing cults/guilds/factions. I wish there had been more examples in the rulebook. I intend to get the Gloranthia Cults book when it comes out, just for reference and borrowing ideas from, even though I do not intend to play in Gloranthia.

Another advantage of RQ over WH FRPG is that you don't have to have been a rat catcher.

As for Vance's Dying Earth, I am only now reading the first novel and I love it. The whole old school renaissance pushed me to this series because it was a major influence on Gygax and was the basis for the OD&D magic system where wizards could only memorize a limited number of spells and the spells vanished from their minds after being cast.