[Rumor] Conan 2nd Ed to use Runequest system?
- Thread starter Ashigaru
- Start date
Claims that D20 slows down play are highly exaggerated. Like any system, the key is having a GM who knows the system. I am sure if I started playing RQ tommorrow, I would be stopping play quite a bit to check rules ("when do characters get a fourth action?" "What is the % penalty for attempting to disarm?", etc).
I rarely consult the rulebooks when I am GMing. That is because the basic mechanic in D20 is very simple. Pick a DC, roll a dice and add your modifier, compare. Claiming that somehow D20 "detracts from role-playing" is just a snobby, elitist way of distinguishing yourself, IMHO.
And btw, what tables do people always talk about consulting? You do realize that THACO and saves against petrification haven't been around for years, right?
I rarely consult the rulebooks when I am GMing. That is because the basic mechanic in D20 is very simple. Pick a DC, roll a dice and add your modifier, compare. Claiming that somehow D20 "detracts from role-playing" is just a snobby, elitist way of distinguishing yourself, IMHO.
And btw, what tables do people always talk about consulting? You do realize that THACO and saves against petrification haven't been around for years, right?
Darrin Kelley
Mongoose
Turloigh said:
Chaosium has always been a company on the edge financially. Their releases have always suffered because of it.
Cthulhu D20 suffered massively because Chaosium really didn't adiquately support the book. Their regular release schedule was so slow that by the time the contract with Wizards was up, they really didn't have enough product support to back it up. And I own all three that they did produce.
I love Cthulhu D20. It's how I was introduced seriously to CoC. But it is another "could have been" for Chaosium.
Mongoose is not Chaosium, by a longsshot. Maybe they will take Runequest to the level of success that exceeds anything that the other companies who had it ever managed to. Who knows? Right now, that's just all speculation.
Darrin Kelley
Mongoose
andakitty said:
For me, it is more of a feeling of annoyance. Changing a successful product for no other reason than for the sake of change is a guaranteed way to bring that out in one's customers. The reactions, I feel, are quite natural.
High Lord Dee
Mongoose
andakitty said:
Bring it! :twisted:
High Lord Dee
Mongoose
Turloigh said:
I guess what I meant to say was that the rules are all well written and well documented. You do not generally need to figure out how to handle a certain situation. So, you can spend time playing and storytelling. Honestly the d20 is not as bad as it appears for those that have not played much. Like any system, the only way to learn is to actually play. Takes a few sessions but then it becomes second nature.
HLD
High Lord Dee
Mongoose
Taharqa said:
Hee Hee. What he said. I hope Mongoose is reading this thread
HLD
andakitty said:
Actually, those would be the cowpies you've been dropping through much of this thread.
I find 90% of the anti-D20 rants are comprised of opinion stated as fact. Spend much time at RPG.net?
Also, the system debate (such as it is) is pro-Conan vs. pro-RQ (ironic given it hasn't been released yet). It is not pro-D20 vs. pro-RQ. If it were pro-D&D vs. pro-RQ, several of the criticisms being bandied about by the anti-D&D/anti-D20 camp might be valid.
Azgulor
High Lord Dee said:
D20 is a crunchy rules heavy and relatively complicated system. Other systems will fade into the background far quicker than D20 will. Even now after many sessions of Conan and several years of D20 experience the rule book is regularly consulted. On the other hand I've gone through long CoC campaigns and only seen the rules have to be checked once or twice.
Speed of learning and system less story telling are not things that D20 do well, especially when compared to BRP.
However I do like D20 and choose to use it for some of my games (such as Conan). It does have strength in it's crunch and my players seem to prefer it to a close equivalent system such as Stormbringer.
I'm open minded about what Mongoose might be up to. About all that I can say with any degree of certainty is that if they produce a system as rules heavy as D20 then I probably won't touch it. D20's enough for me to handle and I don't want to go through that learning curve again. If it's a light system then I might very well give it a go.
Tim
Mongoose
People need to re think their arguments, especially those who claim Conan to be D&D or D20. OGL uses D20 as a basic core, but takes its a lot further. I'm running Conan now and playing in a D20 Greek game. To be honest, the D20 Greek game is pretty bad. Not because of the GM (whose very good) but because the system being used is so LCD (lowest common denominator) that it’s tedious at its best. Conan OLG is a superior product.
That being said, we really won't be able to judge if the new RuinQuest will be better until its out and its played. Then, the only opinions that will actually count will be those players who try both. Those who won't play Conan because they hate D20 aren't being fair to what Mongoose has done with Conan (a very different game). Those who won’t play anything but D&D, D20 and variants are limiting their options and should branch out a bit, its actually fun.
For the record, I play/have played all sorts of systems, including D&D/D20, OGL, GURPS, Hero, Chaosium, and a lot of other long gone systems/games. What attracts me to a game isn't the system, it's the world.
One last thing, there has been no official, or for that matter, confirmable, un-official statement that Conan is going RQ. Until Mongoose says its changing, it's staying OGL. (Although when RQ comes out I'm thinking of running a short story in Turania to see how the system plays in the setting. After all, with what I already have, all I really need are the core RQ rules to give it a try.)
That being said, we really won't be able to judge if the new RuinQuest will be better until its out and its played. Then, the only opinions that will actually count will be those players who try both. Those who won't play Conan because they hate D20 aren't being fair to what Mongoose has done with Conan (a very different game). Those who won’t play anything but D&D, D20 and variants are limiting their options and should branch out a bit, its actually fun.
For the record, I play/have played all sorts of systems, including D&D/D20, OGL, GURPS, Hero, Chaosium, and a lot of other long gone systems/games. What attracts me to a game isn't the system, it's the world.
One last thing, there has been no official, or for that matter, confirmable, un-official statement that Conan is going RQ. Until Mongoose says its changing, it's staying OGL. (Although when RQ comes out I'm thinking of running a short story in Turania to see how the system plays in the setting. After all, with what I already have, all I really need are the core RQ rules to give it a try.)
Darrin Kelley
Mongoose
bc99 said:
I own CoC in D20 and BRP. Both are good games. But I lean in preference toward the D20 version. It is just what I am used to.
Sutek
Mongoose
Let's get a couple of things straight:
1) Different systems suit different game genres and universes. The old, d6 style COC rules still rock, but only for playing COC or something in a mundane, normal human world. Try using it to run a crime/espionage game - it's great. D20 was built off of the "video game" concept of leveling up on a set incremental framework, that's why low lvl characters get more XP for a given encounter than high lvl characters do: It's a formula. It suits the fantasy genre be cause of this predictable engine, because it allows characters to succeed more often than not, unless rolls are poor (or good, if you look at it from the GM perspective.
With Conan D20, this formula is sent sideways because the aspect of incremental XP progression is excised, meaning there's no CR for monsters and everyone can get more or less XP depending on what the GM wants to award. This makes the setting more dangerous and unpredictable.
Let's face it though, D20 is a tight engine. The only flaws occur when a writer of a perticular supplement forgets to explain what the heck he truly meant by a new rule. Otherwise, the system welcomes and promotes on-the-fly rulings and makes for the most equal standing between players and GMs that has ever existed in this industry.
If there was a better mouse-trap out there (say RQ for instance) I also think we'd all know it. I personally love Hârnmaster, but either people have never heard of it, or it wouldn't be suited to running a Conan style game with. Conan is unique, remember: It has elements that should be very gritty and grounded in reality, but the fantasy elements are supposed to be far out. D20 accomplishes that wonderfully.
Why change? Because the money is somewhere else - that's the only reason to make such a business decision. I cannot fathom D20 vX.X going anywhere anytime soon, so the money being elsewhere theory just doesn't hold water in my view. The only other reason is to suit othe raspects of the liscenec (since this is a multi-media liscence that's pretty plausible) and the ONLY other conan thing yeat to be realeased that will impact the tone and feel of a game mechanic built for Conan...
...the MMORPG.
I think any decision to change the system over is because RQ mirrors what the designers of the MMORPG are doing, since D&D on-line would restrict the use of that code based on IP laws. Just a guess.
Which brings me to...
2) Open Liscence. All games are open open liscecen to an extent because NOBODY can copyright the mechanics. They can only copyright the actual content, and that's where Wizards OGL has helped. They ahve essentially said "We arent' going to quibble over the usage of the basic words that make out game function; use them to your heart's content and multiply." That's cool, but if I wanted to create a game that renamed the stats to BRAWN, AGILITY, ENDURANCE, etc. yet otherwise operated basically the same (roll a d20 versus a target number and see if you succeed) then I could. The OGL only allows the proliferation of the textual parts of the game that make it easier for people to make thie own knock-off modules and stuff.
That's why Conan isn't anbd OGL game.
:wink:
1) Different systems suit different game genres and universes. The old, d6 style COC rules still rock, but only for playing COC or something in a mundane, normal human world. Try using it to run a crime/espionage game - it's great. D20 was built off of the "video game" concept of leveling up on a set incremental framework, that's why low lvl characters get more XP for a given encounter than high lvl characters do: It's a formula. It suits the fantasy genre be cause of this predictable engine, because it allows characters to succeed more often than not, unless rolls are poor (or good, if you look at it from the GM perspective.
With Conan D20, this formula is sent sideways because the aspect of incremental XP progression is excised, meaning there's no CR for monsters and everyone can get more or less XP depending on what the GM wants to award. This makes the setting more dangerous and unpredictable.
Let's face it though, D20 is a tight engine. The only flaws occur when a writer of a perticular supplement forgets to explain what the heck he truly meant by a new rule. Otherwise, the system welcomes and promotes on-the-fly rulings and makes for the most equal standing between players and GMs that has ever existed in this industry.
If there was a better mouse-trap out there (say RQ for instance) I also think we'd all know it. I personally love Hârnmaster, but either people have never heard of it, or it wouldn't be suited to running a Conan style game with. Conan is unique, remember: It has elements that should be very gritty and grounded in reality, but the fantasy elements are supposed to be far out. D20 accomplishes that wonderfully.
Why change? Because the money is somewhere else - that's the only reason to make such a business decision. I cannot fathom D20 vX.X going anywhere anytime soon, so the money being elsewhere theory just doesn't hold water in my view. The only other reason is to suit othe raspects of the liscenec (since this is a multi-media liscence that's pretty plausible) and the ONLY other conan thing yeat to be realeased that will impact the tone and feel of a game mechanic built for Conan...
...the MMORPG.
I think any decision to change the system over is because RQ mirrors what the designers of the MMORPG are doing, since D&D on-line would restrict the use of that code based on IP laws. Just a guess.
Which brings me to...
2) Open Liscence. All games are open open liscecen to an extent because NOBODY can copyright the mechanics. They can only copyright the actual content, and that's where Wizards OGL has helped. They ahve essentially said "We arent' going to quibble over the usage of the basic words that make out game function; use them to your heart's content and multiply." That's cool, but if I wanted to create a game that renamed the stats to BRAWN, AGILITY, ENDURANCE, etc. yet otherwise operated basically the same (roll a d20 versus a target number and see if you succeed) then I could. The OGL only allows the proliferation of the textual parts of the game that make it easier for people to make thie own knock-off modules and stuff.
That's why Conan isn't anbd OGL game.
:wink:
