rules for infernum

[Mikeydanuke]

(had to correct some spelling errors in a previous post...working nightshift causes serious attention deficeit disorder...or maybe it was the kids...or maybe being married 25 years....)

The other night something popped up that we were unable to find a ruling for, so I had to make one on the spot.

The House Sturrach party (Fiend, 2 Stalkers, Beast) were exploring the abondoned part of a mine when they encountered a 10' Diameter hole. The stalkers and the beasts jumped down, but the fiend wanted to fly down. we got into a brief discussion about flying, jumping, hovering, etc ., etc., and checked the rulebooks (albiet somewhat cursory) but couldn't find anything clearly defining what the wingspan of a medium sized demon would be.

I then made a house ruling for this instance (Keeping in mind my opening sentence) and having a vague recollection of wingspans and body lengths of WW2 fighters* I ruled that the wingspan of any normal sized winged demon** would be 1.5 times its body height, so assuming a 6' sized (medium) demon, it's wingspan would be 9'.

Much to my annoyance, my son then proceeded to pass all the DC's he needed to fly down a narrow opening and on to further adventures.

But, I am interested if I missed where the rulebooks talked about the wingspan of winged demons. Do the rulebooks address the issue anywhere (I don't have Book 3 as yet) and if not, does anyone know what the correct ratio of wing-to-body-length would be?

Thanks

Mikeydanuke

PS ..and for the record, of all the different types and genre's of wargames I play, Air War games are my least favorites...


* Possibly going out on a limb, I seemed to remember reading
somewhere that the wingspan to body length generally was 1.25 to 1.5

** I know some demons have short stubby wings, those don't matter. By "normal sized" I mean demons that don't have "short stubby bat wings"

 

[pablo]

House Rule:

I would say that it is created within 5 ft. of the demon and do a 5 ft. burst.
Hellfire would not do splash damage.

ok so i have two things about that what benefit would a fiend have for useing hellfire bomb on the ground and second on pg 188 under are effect it define a burst as orginate from the demon so if a fiend as a 5 ft burst and he is the point of orgin wouldnt it go out five feet from him

that would make sense if the demon become large its only 5 ft out from the demon
thats how i read it

um two question
a lg fiend does 2d6 claw dmg orginal starting at 1d8 going to a large dmg takes u to 2d6 then i use iron claw so i now get to do 3d6 right

how in 3.5 dnd splash dmg is define as 1 point to every thing that is splash can i assume it works the same way

 

[Mark_Gedak]

1) Benefit of Hellfire bomb on the ground.

- I don't think there is really supposed to be one. The Hellbomb is supposed to be dropped from the air. It seems to me that its use on the ground should be extremely limit. Otherwise why offer Firebreath at two tiers higher.

2) That is correct.

3) I would assume so as well. However typically only liquids like holy water, acid and oil are allowed to splash.

 

[pablo]

1) Benefit of Hellfire bomb on the ground.

- I don't think there is really supposed to be one. The Hellbomb is supposed to be dropped from the air. It seems to me that its use on the ground should be extremely limit. Otherwise why offer Firebreath at two tiers higher.

2) That is correct.

3) I would assume so as well. However typically only liquids like holy water, acid and oil are allowed to splash.

OK then why does it say if it is used on the ground it burst
so the burst does nothing i'm cool with that the one splash dmg wasnt that great any ways

 

[Mikeydanuke]

My son and I both have a question about Covenants. On page 223 of Book 1, it states that a character can hold a number of debts equal to the total of his Wisdom and Charisma bonuses.

Does this mean that a character with a wisdom of 10 and a Charisma of 10 (no bonuses) cannot hold a covenant from another demon? That seems like it would have a pretty shattering effect on demonic society. It would also explain why Deceivers are so important in Demonic Society.

And if, for another example, a character takes a "temporary" hit to his Charisma, do any Covenants he might have had due to a high Charisma automatically go away when his Charisma drops to 8?

Thanks
Mikey and Pablo

 

[Mark_Gedak]

OK then why does it say if it is used on the ground it bursts

Burst does not imply a splashing effect. Fireballs have a burst radius, meaning they start from a single point and spread in all directions that amount. So the hellfire bomb is centered on you and hits all targets within five feet of you. Still, if you use it on the ground (which is not recommended) unless you are immune to hellfire you will be hit as well.

 

[Mark_Gedak]

Does this mean that a character with a wisdom of 10 and a Charisma of 10 (no bonuses) cannot hold a covenant from another demon? That seems like it would have a pretty shattering effect on demonic society. It would also explain why Deceivers are so important in Demonic Society.

And if, for another example, a character takes a "temporary" hit to his Charisma, do any Covenants he might have had due to a high Charisma automatically go away when his Charisma drops to 8?

1) Correct they may not hold covenants.
2) It is extremely beneficial to has a high Wis and Cha, unlike some other games. (There are no "throw away" stats in Infernum)
3) If you lost Charsima, the demon you have Covanented will be released from their covanent until you restore your lost Charisma.

 

[Mongoose Gar]

My son and I both have a question about Covenants. On page 223 of Book 1, it states that a character can hold a number of debts equal to the total of his Wisdom and Charisma bonuses.

Does this mean that a character with a wisdom of 10 and a Charisma of 10 (no bonuses) cannot hold a covenant from another demon? That seems like it would have a pretty shattering effect on demonic society. It would also explain why Deceivers are so important in Demonic Society.

And if, for another example, a character takes a "temporary" hit to his Charisma, do any Covenants he might have had due to a high Charisma automatically go away when his Charisma drops to 8?

Thanks
Mikey and Pablo

There are ways to hold Covenants without having a Wisdom or Charisma bonus - you use another demon as your proxy. Thud the hulk might not have the force of will to hold a Covenant, but he can intimidate some poor imp into serving him (through threats and brutality, not Covenanting). Then anyone Thud beats up offers a Covenant to the imp, and Thud makes sure the imp doesn't betray him. It's obvously risky, as Thud's control over the imp is based purely on Thud's ability to beat up the imp. If the imp runs off, Thud loses everything. But it's an option.

And yeah, you can lose Covenants through ability score damage. Many powerful demons will transfer their most important covenants over to allies if they fear such damage.

 

[Mikeydanuke]

It still seems like their should be some way for a demon to hold a convential convenant from another demon even is he has a lot Wisdom and Charisma. My son and I were thinking along the lines of convenants also being tied to level (2 levels = 1 convenant) so that any Demon, even one with some severe Wisdom/Charisma penalties, could conceivably rise high enough in Demonic Society to be capable of owning convenatns.

The matter of using threats to keep a demon in line would, to my mind, go without saying, but a Demon that breaks a Threat doesn't break a convenant (which could have some bad side-effects, so I wouldnt really consider that to be a convenant as discribed in Book 1.

Thanks
Mikey

 

[pablo]

if for some reason a large creature wanted to tumble through a medium or smaller size person threat range or square would u give them any negatives

i was thinking about sense that get a +4 to grapple disaarm
i was thinking about a minus 4 to tumble for every size smaller the creature is

ok so hellfire only affect the square you are in so if i grapple some one into my square then hell fire it would hurt them
and me right

also does havening multiply arms and heads help ure grappleing at all

 

[pablo]

hey yeah so i have more question can any one help

ok first say u have a hulk with a machine gun and he buys a large one now i know it does more dmg but does the area effect of his auto fire go up any
so say u have a huge hulk who buys a huge mini gun no he is what 20 25 feet tall but his gun only effects a 10ft by 10 ft square

so speak of big can u even get bigger guns can u walk around as a huge hulk with a huge pistol


question 3 in dnd i think it ready that to be able to fly u have to have a light load so can i assume that it works the same way in this game

question 4 does haveing multiply heads or arms or a tail benefit u in a grapple at all i mean can u do the lil goro thing from mortal combat holding a guy with ure two lower arms and beating him to death with you top two arms

and my last question for the night

if i was a fiend and was in a grapple awesome i had the correct str can i life off with the person i am grpple with in hand or fly by and pick him up

i was just wondering about these question i havnet gottne an answer to

 

[pablo]

i think i'm surehow this works but i wanted some one to say for sure

if u have two different secondary attack
can u make both of them at a -5
or does the second secondary attack suffer another -5 so like a -10 all together

 

[Mark_Gedak]

Both at -5.

Pick up Multiattack when you can to drop it to -2.

 

[pablo]

ok so if i have a find with
4 arms and a tail

i get my one normal attakc
and my second set of arms at -5
and the tail at -5

so how would it work if i use two weapon fighting
would that work for both hands
so it would be like -2 for my first set
and -7 if all my weapons are light

and i had one more question

oh if u roll 100% on ure random mutation
u get to roll twice and get both of those mutations
so if u get another 100% which i dougbt would ever happen
would u get 4 mutations

 

[pablo]

ok sorry i have a few more question
when u role a mutation that says
this can be picked multiply times on a random roll
how do u know if u picked the same one again or if u move up in the chain

one more question
the liveing fortress mutation or liveing armor or something add +4 to ure natuarl ac

the one of the insect mutation also add plus 4
do both of those stack

so that demons has a +8 +dex and wore armor

 

[pablo]

ok if ure a free demon or mercenary demon

do u get two feets of ure choice sense u dont get a house feat