Rule for grav vehicles?

[CosmicGamer]

If the air/raft is unable to produce escape velocity with its capabilities

Again, what says this?

I believe (Google search) Escape velocity is only around 1.42 x orbital velocity. Not the science guru here, but I believe escape velocity is all about reaching a speed whereby one can coast the rest of the way and does not apply to a vehicle that is providing continuous thrust?

 

[phavoc]

No. MGT CRB is. I already gave you the reference. Why do you think that I wrote that item in CRB?

Nowhere does it say that a 5kg-ish thruster pack has a micro-fusion generator. It says it uses the same fuel. Period. As an self-proclaimed engineer surely you know that liquid hydrogen can be used in other ways to provide propulsion other than fuel for a fusion generator, right? Lessee, there's using it straight up as propellant, there is mixing it with other gases to generate thrust (i.e. rocket engines), there's using it in a fuel cell. A fuel cell makes sense because it's just generating power that is then used for the thruster plates. It's also simple and you don't need radiation shielding. I'd really like to know what kind of material they could come up with that provides the necessary shielding properties in something that masses around 10lbs. That would certainly be an engineering feat!

In the description of the item in question it is. Which is the item under discussion. We are not discusing EVERYWHERE that the term is used in Traveller. So, all else is meaningless within this context. Thruster can also be proceeded by "water" when talking about certain flush toilets manufactured in Japan circa 1980. But, we are talking about MGT TL 14 Long Range Thruster packs for space suits...

"We" weren't discussing things. "I" pointed out that in the CRB the term thruster was used in multiple ways. By doing so I was making a point that the usage was NOT universal when it came to the application of the term for locomotion. I also did start off my original response by stating I was quoting from the CRB, and only then did I mention that the usage was not universal. The description of the thruster pack states that the TL-12 version uses L-hyd for fuel, and the TL-14 is "much smaller" and uses grav thruster plates. So, umm, yeah, context is important when applied appropriately. Notice that at neither type of pack mentions anything related to exactly how the L-hyd fuel is used. Just that it is. And again I point out that no mention of a backpack fusion reactor is referenced for the TL-12 or TL-14 packs.

 

[Jeraa]

Just that it is. And again I point out that no mention of a backpack fusion reactor is referenced for the TL-12 or TL-14 packs.

The core rulebook mentions a micro-fusion generator for the PGMP-12. How much of the 10kg mass is the generator and how much is the weapon itself isn't listed. By TL16, the reactor is small enough to fit inside a rifle (the plasma rifle).

Nowhere does it say that a 5kg-ish thruster pack has a micro-fusion generator.

The TL 12 thruster pack is listed at 10 kg. IF a 10 kg, TL 12 PGMP can have a micro-fusion generator, I don't see why a 10 kg, TL 12 thruster pack couldn't have the same. THe fact it uses standard starship fuel only adds to the argument that the thruster pack has (or at least could have) a fusion generator.

 

[Reynard]

This is one of those banes to the K.I.S.S. model of game mechanics, under description of items and mechanics. An actual 'micro fusion generator' should be in Grandfather's playground and I believe possibly it sounded cool when the gods of Traveller first penned it. It's too big a leap from power plant reactors. Everything else depends on other power sources such as fuel cells. I mean, if micro-fusion reactor exist, why aren't they powering EVERYTHING? They don't.

What I see is a misnomer of a purpose built power source for man-portable heavy weapons. The eggheads try to explain it to the jocks and the jocks say "Oh, sorta a micro fusion reactor!".

"Uuuh, okay, sure. Be happy! It's a... micro fusion reactor. Go kill things!"

I checked the expanded design systems in Fire, Fusion and Steel and they admit their mistake. No single digit weight fusion reactor. It is the ignition system to power the weapon such as the magnetic bottle to house the plasma or fusion burst plus the laser system that starts the plasma/fusion reaction in a microsecond.

That means the thruster packs aren't using reactors. The TL 12 uses the most readily available fuel in space, liquid hydrogen, from the ship as reaction mass in a very efficient ejection system. TL 14 uses grav thruster pushing a minute amount of mass (a person) against the micro-gravity. Power sources such as fuel cells and batteries should be more than adequate for the stated endurance.

By the way, I got the thruster movement confused. They do indeed have acceleration rather than velocity movement so they are more like a reaction/reactionless drive but on a very different scale. So much to remember!

 

[phavoc]

Just that it is. And again I point out that no mention of a backpack fusion reactor is referenced for the TL-12 or TL-14 packs.

The core rulebook mentions a micro-fusion generator for the PGMP-12. How much of the 10kg mass is the generator and how much is the weapon itself isn't listed. By TL16, the reactor is small enough to fit inside a rifle (the plasma rifle).

Nowhere does it say that a 5kg-ish thruster pack has a micro-fusion generator.

The TL 12 thruster pack is listed at 10 kg. IF a 10 kg, TL 12 PGMP can have a micro-fusion generator, I don't see why a 10 kg, TL 12 thruster pack couldn't have the same. THe fact it uses standard starship fuel only adds to the argument that the thruster pack has (or at least could have) a fusion generator.

True, the CRB does state that the PGMP is powered by a micro-fusion generator. This is altered in the CSC to whereby the powerpack uses a laser to ignite hydrogen and cause a plasma reaction (L-hyd being hydrogen, too. No need to insert a fusion reactor). Aside from the differences in weapons, creating a reactor that harnesses a reaction is far different than creating a weapon that essentially vents a detonation in the direction that you want. It's always been easier to make something that goes 'kablooey!' than it is to usefully harness it.

Also the mass of a PGMP remains constant at 10kg. Their PGMP brethren start at 12kg and go UP. This is in direct contradiction to the statement that the TL-14 thruster pack gets a significant mass reduction over the TL-12 (which weighs in at 10kg). And there's the matter of the radiation discharge from the weapons. For troops is directed outwards, but a reactor would be a spherical emission source, meaning you'd have to have spherical shielding too. Shielding requires additional mass, not less.