Roguish types of magnamund

A

Anonymous

Guest
Has anyone thought of a thief type class to play in lonewolf?The buccaneer is great, but more of a swashbuckler than normal rogue. Iam tempted to try a Noodnic scavenger type, but i am sure there must be human options. I can remember guildmaster thieves and assassins from the books but thats not exactly hero material. Still might be fun to play something sneaky!
 
Maybe add some 3.5 type feats to the Commoner abilities every few levels, such as Sneak Attack, Move Silently and Dodge type abilities. Give them the same weapon profs. as Thieves from D&D 3.5 and only able to use light armour. Maybe add some advanced classes similar to the Assassin and Shadowdancer prestige classes?
 
I haven't got the book in front of me know but you could probably model a professional thief with the expert class.

@Stormhawk I think a Noonik character class would be very popular. The theives guild or the Assassins of Rhem may not be heroic good but neither are the Cener Druids and they have been a very nice addition to MOM.

What we really need are a few mundane advanced classes to help us model such things as thieves and add colour to the NPCs that face our players.
 
The problem with the Noodnics is that I don't really see them interacting with the rest of the world all that much. They are reclusive, speak their own language, are 2 feet tall (much smaller than even a hobbit), sneaky, you get the picture. They only appear in a little segment of a single book. I don't see them warranting a class in LW anytime soon. I'd see Ogrons or Kloons way before Noodnics.
 
Yes i like the sound of advanced classes. they are really useful for making interesting npcs, and good for pcs to give a little variety. And i think there really is scope for a Noodnic Scavenger and Assassin of Rhem.
just a few thoughts on the Noodnic class:

Noodnic Scavenger

Game Rule information
Racial Note:
Noodnics are intelligent rodents that inhabit the maze of tunnels beneath the Hammerdal mountain range in Durenor. They gain the following benefits/drawbacks:

-8 penaulty to strength (min3)
+2 Stealth,Sleight of Hand,+4 Acrobatics,Climb checks


Abilities: Dexterity and Wisdom, and Constitution to survive. Intelligence also useful for skills.

End die: d4
base speed: 20 feet

Class skills
Acrobatics(dex),Appraise(Int), Athletics(Str),Bluff(cha)*, Climb(str),Craft(tailor)(int),Disable Device(int),Escape Artist(dex),Gather Information(cha),Knowledge(Dungeoneering)(int),Perception(wis), Stealth(dex),Sleight of Hand(dex)

* I include bluff because i figure its difficult to tell if a 2 foot tall talking rat is lying!

Skill points at 1st level: (8+int modifier)x4
Skill Points at each addition level: 8+int modifier

Class Features

Armour and Weapons Profiency: Noodnics are proficient with Daggers(dont include slight of hand bonuses, but uses dex to hit), shortswords (treat as two handed and slashing weapons) and spears(treat as a lance-would need to be mounted. On what, mmm a badger?), and padded or leather armour. Such armour would probably be made by the noodnic, patched together.

As for class abilities go, first level could be:

Lowlight Vision, Scent, Sneak attack+1d6, AC+1

as for higher levels, could have choice of Scavenging type abilities (extra sneak attack, uncanny dodge, trap sense bonuses (Reflex saves vs traps), AC bonuses, improvising weapons, armour etc. Higher levels would indicate some kind of role in the noodnic community, such as Gashgiss. Since Noodnics are partly magical,so there could even be animal based magical abilities, such as communicating or controlling animals, immunity to diseases and poisons etc.

As for BCS and saves, i would guesss +15/+10/+5, and +6 +12 +6 maxims, although depending on class features, it may be more realistic to have BCS just +10/+5
 
Why not just let them be modeled using the expert class, and give the option of trading in 2 class skills for backstab +1d6, then allow them to spend skill mastery and skill advancement boosts on additional backstab damage or on rogue-ish abilities like dodge?
 
columbob said:
The problem with the Noodnics is that I don't really see them interacting with the rest of the world all that much. They are reclusive, speak their own language, are 2 feet tall (much smaller than even a hobbit), sneaky, you get the picture. They only appear in a little segment of a single book. I don't see them warranting a class in LW anytime soon. I'd see Ogrons or Kloons way before Noodnics.

I have to agree with CB here; although a Noodnic class would be interesting, I'd also rather see the likes of Kloons and Ogrons first. Of course, that's not to stop anyone developing their own homebrew variations.

cheers!
Colin
 
Nog said:
Why not just let them be modeled using the expert class, and give the option of trading in 2 class skills for backstab +1d6, then allow them to spend skill mastery and skill advancement boosts on additional backstab damage or on rogue-ish abilities like dodge?

Hmm, that's a little too D&D-ish in approach for my personal tastes. The entire fixation that all thieves/rogues must somehow be especially proficient at knifing someone in the back is something that has never really sat well with me, the entire ability being more fitting for the likes of skilled assassins and other such killers, imo.
Ability-wise, I certainly agree with good evasive abilities, not to mention excellent stealth, and pick-pocketing abilities. Potentially, I can also see the application of skills appropriate to burglary, but backstabbing is just overdone and overused.
Based on their rodent-like nature, natural aptitudes demonstrating great perceptiveness would be appropriate (especially hearing), as would an excellent sense of balance, climbing ability, and overall agility.
Their small size would also play its part (limiting their physicality with everything that entails, but also making them harder targets, and more capable of squeezing into tight spaces or otherwise hiding).

cheers!
Colin
 
Its not necessarily a "knifing in the back" skill. It used to be called Backstab pre-3rd ed. Now, its called sneak attack. It just means that you're able to attack someone in a more vital place if they're not looking.

Rogues are dirty fighters. Thats how they survive. They attack someone when they're not looking and usually try to kill or disable them with one hit because they're not to powerfull in a face to face fight.

But yes. Thats one thing I thought that Lone Wolf was sorely missing. A good rogue.

Also, I thought it was missing a good bard class. They're mentioned in one of the books as wandering Trabadors or something.

As to the people that say the noodnic wasn't apropriate. How apropriate would a Telchos warrior be in northern Magnamund? I don't even remember them being any kind of major character or NPC.

There was a limited amount of canonical material produced. And, seeing as Joe Dever isn't involved with the day to day development of Lone Wolf. I think its a great thing for people to expand Magnamund as they see fit.

Sourcebooks are very essential. Seeing as you'd have to own all 20+books of the orignal gaming series. And, seeing as they're rarer than gold and were a choose on adventure style book, (Which makes it almost impossible to use them as refference books) sourcebooks would be a wealth of info.

sunwolf
 
sunwolf said:
Its not necessarily a "knifing in the back" skill. It used to be called Backstab pre-3rd ed. Now, its called sneak attack. It just means that you're able to attack someone in a more vital place if they're not looking.

Rogues are dirty fighters. Thats how they survive. They attack someone when they're not looking and usually try to kill or disable them with one hit because they're not to powerfull in a face to face fight.

I know the justification behind the ability (and its rationale in terms of giving the rogue some options in the combat situations that make up most D&D adventures), I just think it's one that's overdone and not always appropriate for the rogue concept. For one thing it implies that every rogue has a good understanding of just where to knife someone to inflict a more mortal wound (and ergo, that other individuals, including skilled combatants, don't), and it makes makes a big deal of the fact that all rogues must have spent significant amounts of time sneakily killing each other (as well as various victims) when practically all rogues would run like buggery to avoid a fight or confrontation. Certainly, it's something some thugs, cut-throats, and assassins would possess, but it's not something I'd grant to all rogues.

Of course, this is all a moot point anyway, since the rogue class isn't part of Magnamund anyway. I guess the real question is, does the ability fit how people visualise the Noodnic as frequently behaving?

sunwolf said:
But yes. Thats one thing I thought that Lone Wolf was sorely missing. A good rogue.
Also, I thought it was missing a good bard class. They're mentioned in one of the books as wandering Trabadors or something.
sunwolf

I agree, the LWRPG is missing a decent rogueish class, and yes, wandering troubadours are mentioned, specifically, "The Famous Asajir Players: Troubadours to the Imperial Courts of Magnamund." I'd probably treat troubadours (and most normal rogues for that matter) as Experts though, as one of the things that appeals so much about the LWRPG for me, is the fact that all of the PC classes are generally magical/powerful/unusual and definitely beyond the norm.

cheers!
Colin
 
sunwolf said:
Also, I thought it was missing a good bard class. They're mentioned in one of the books as wandering Trabadors or something.

You can create a pretty good Bard class with the Sage of Lyris. Choose Sonomancy as your primary art and take your excellence skills from the Rewards of the people section.
 
Maybe sneakattacks are not right for noodnics- thats much better suited for an assassin of rhem or the buccaneer. On the noodnic class, i guess they would have a range of Scavenger tricks, that can be chosen every couple of levels, and would mostly be about not getting hit, or scrounging up objects and items.Noodnics would and should not get involved with too much combat although they would be probably ok chucking darts, hidden up in the eaves of buildings etc. In the Lw poster book, a gang of noodnics are pictured helping to steal a statue and so they could have cooperative abilities- imagine a swarm of knife wielding rats, chopping at your ankles! They may even develope homemade boobytraps, originally intended to protect their lairs. I see noodnics as being able to improvise things from seemingless junk, having had to exist on the flotsam and jetsam of their tunnel dwelling (think of the lost boys in "hook"). More than just master pickpockets, i see them as survivors, with a strongly mishievious bent, although basically having a very animal sense of community. Although they fill the role of rogues, being skilled in infiltration or trickery, it wouldnt be right to portray them as greedy backstabbers. I dont think they mean anyone any harm. In the legends of lonewolf books( i kow not totally canon material) They are described as not really understanding personal possessions- they just aquire things for their community. That sounds like a fairly decent type of character actually. Certainly a lot more honourable and heroic than your average thief type. Just hide your purse around em!
 
STORMHAWK said:
They are described as not really understanding personal possessions- they just aquire things for their community. That sounds like a fairly decent type of character actually. Certainly a lot more honourable and heroic than your average thief type. Just hide your purse around em!

Oh no... "Revenge of the Kender" :roll: :)
 
Don't feel that bard as portrayed in D&D fits in the Lone Wolf setting. A bard would only be a person with many ranks in perform, nothing else. I've never really liked the system with classes as my first RPG experience was the basic roleplaying system (used in Call of Cthulhu for example). Lone Wolf is an exception though. Really uses the D20 system to it own needs. (Like levelling after a complete adventure, not after you've gained X experience points) If LWERPG had been more low power a travelling bard would have been a good companion, as it is now he only becomes a side-kick (which could be fun as well :wink: )
 
Hmf. If in your Magnamund a person needs to be a powerful fighter or mage, to be a "good companion", then yes, you probably have no need for a bard, nor for some other real roguish character (and, in this regard, I fully agree with Mr. Chapman). :wink:

As for me, well, it was the first thing I set up to making, before I started my campaign, and one of my players immediately chose it. Now, the group has undergone a few changes, and that player in particular vanished after the very first session, but the rogue character stayed.
The class has no good offensive ability, no magic and no psi, and there were two Kai in the group(1), but our Nipul has never been shadowed by the others. It's probably been the other way around, in some scenes - as long as the group hasn't fully settled, it's difficult for me to write adventures perfectly calibrated on them. So my roguish nature tends to come out :D
__
(1) I'm sorry to say that one left us, and he was really fun though his Kai was not exactly monastic - I had in mind great plans about that... :D
 
C. Chapman said:
For one thing it implies that every rogue has a good understanding of just where to knife someone to inflict a more mortal wound (and ergo, that other individuals, including skilled combatants, don't), and it makes makes a big deal of the fact that all rogues must have spent significant amounts of time sneakily killing each other (as well as various victims) when practically all rogues would run like buggery to avoid a fight or confrontation. Certainly, it's something some thugs, cut-throats, and assassins would possess, but it's not something I'd grant to all rogues.

Of course, this is all a moot point anyway, since the rogue class isn't part of Magnamund anyway. I guess the real question is, does the ability fit how people visualise the Noodnic as frequently behaving?

First, I have to say, I LOVE the way you phrased that - "run like buggery" :lol:

As for the rogue/thief class, I direct ANYONE interested in the Lone Wolf version of a companion/PC rogue to go read Grey Star book 2 ("The Forbidden City"). Most specifically, anything and everything Hugi does/says/etc.

From the way he's written, he's almost more useful for his ability to convincingly lie to people and his cleverness than he is for any particular ability to leap out of the bushes and stab someone stealthily.

I can also see it as a class that really thrives in the city environment, finding it easier than other classes to speak multiple languages, move silently and accurately through crowds and alleys, convincing that stubbon shopkeeper to lower his prices... and so on. Call it Pathsmanship for cities, in a way.

At one point, he also shows a knack for detecting a secret passage... and a skilled appraisal ability probably isn't out of the question. Probably would be good at disarming and setting traps as well...

Such a character clearly wouldn't be much of a combat char (that's more or less why D&D gives the thief class the backstab - because otherwise, they tend to get eclipsed by the combat machines around them). But in a Lone Wolf game, they could easily provide enough support to be useful (assuming, of course, the GM intends to run a game with equal parts combat and non-combat elements). But most of the time, when the fighting starts, such a character would probably, as Colin put it, run like buggery.

And, if we're looking for canonicity, there IS a Thieves Guild in Tahou...
 
Bard-Sage of Lyris studying Sonomancy. The power set is almost a direct copy of a bardic's performance abilities. Also, check out the bardic Kai Disciplines in the Book of the Magnakai at TOTS (Tower of the Sun.com).

Rogues-Simple. Go grab an 3.5 Players Handbook, grab a thief, and make his feats class abilities. Easy to do.
 
Back
Top