Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
High Orbit Drifter said:
Perhaps Poni Express riders also have to carry and personally deliver encrypted usb sticks and packages.
Robotic ships
- Thread starter High Orbit Drifter
- Start date
Perhaps Poni Express riders also have to carry and personally deliver encrypted usb sticks and packages.
High Orbit Drifter
Mongoose
Condottiere said:
I'm sure that would still be a service, but a little from little Eneri Jr. to grandma back on Regina isn't going to rate that treatment. Unless Junior was in the Ine Givar...
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Little 'Enri might not, but a message from a megacorp planetary manager to the subsector vice president for security operations, describing the holy crap their hired mercenaries just landed them in, might.
High Orbit Drifter
Mongoose
mr31337 said:
PERFECT! That is exactly what I was looking for. Well, I need High Guard now, but I just needed to know if they were 'allowed'. The rest, hacking and such, can be just color or adventure seeds.
Reynard
Emperor Mongoose
I recently picked up Sector Fleet and noticed the K'kree are fond of semi autonomous drone fighters. Definitely a necessity for a race that normally would need huge ships for fighting. I there a k'kree carrier example? I may have missed it since I believe I have all the ship sourcebooks.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Actually, at ninety thousand credits per annum, seventy two basic salary and and eighteen life support, not counting bonuses, a human pilot is cheaper than a drone.
Mithras
Banded Mongoose
As Professor Brian Cox says on the voice over DVD for Sunshine: (paraphrased) "why is there a crew on the Icarus 2? They are the back-up, a human crew trained to deal with all kinds of eventualities should the automated systems fail." And of course in Sunshine, a fairly simple one-way automated mission, things go very wrong.
Mithras
Banded Mongoose
Didn't the old Amber Zone adventure 'Dagger at Efate' involve a preprogrammed Type C cruiser jumping into the Efate system on a collision course with the planet?
EDIT: Just checked, yes, no humans onboard. JTAS 8, 1981.
EDIT 2: Sorry Alex Greene, you mentioned this up-thread!
EDIT: Just checked, yes, no humans onboard. JTAS 8, 1981.
EDIT 2: Sorry Alex Greene, you mentioned this up-thread!
Multiple examples of automated ships executing jumps in Traveller adventures here seems to have missed one: Annic Nova. And this was in GDW publications.
Correct GMing of robots should result in additional penalties for highly unusual circumstances. A sophont astrogator may alter the settings because, intuitively, the plotted result seems wrong. Without the ability to quantify the effect of a strange phenomenon, some approximation may be required and perhaps an intelligent astrogator is better able to fudge the amount than a computer program or robot that lacks as much creativity. Not saying the robot can't come up with something, but maybe the robot gets even more penalties than the human would have.
So you can buy an expert system that gives the ship Astrogator-3 in most circumstances and Astrogator-0 when the manure hits the rotary oscillating device.
I took this approach IMTU along with a general prejudice against automated control. And full robot control (not just supplementing human crew in every key position) would be considered illegal (voiding the insurance policy) for any merchant vessel taking on passengers or for a ship landing at major starports.
You end up with human crew because people have a prejudice against trusting their safety completely to a machine. You may get away with expert system gunners, or doubling up some positions (a highly rated expert pilot system, a highly rated expert astrogation system, and a human pilot/astrogator who monitors the systems and assumes control when necessary), or using robots to fill out secondary positions (chief engineer must be a person but if you have a couple of robots with expert systems on the relevant skills working all the time you don't need three engineers on the ship).
Also, robots are expensive. If it costs $360,000 each for those engineering robots that is more than the basic salary for an engineer. And the cost of the robot must be financed up front while the salary of that engineer can be paid out over time.
Also, a human engineer may receive medical treatment on a low tech world while that robot engineer cannot be repaired without access to appropriate parts. The higher tech the robot is the harder it can be to fix it. (same issue with designing a TL 15 merchant vessel instead of the basic tramp or far trader. You get better performance and/or more cargo space but the tramp trader can be fixed in many places where the TL 15 trader can't. (but your hull is made out of bonded superdense. We don't have the equipment to work that material....)
I like the way this works out. Traders avoid dependence on robots because you can hire a replacement engineer easier and cheaper than buying a replacement robot. But some villain with an entirely robot crew is still possible as an exception where having a crew that never gets drunk and talks too much is worth the cost.
Correct GMing of robots should result in additional penalties for highly unusual circumstances. A sophont astrogator may alter the settings because, intuitively, the plotted result seems wrong. Without the ability to quantify the effect of a strange phenomenon, some approximation may be required and perhaps an intelligent astrogator is better able to fudge the amount than a computer program or robot that lacks as much creativity. Not saying the robot can't come up with something, but maybe the robot gets even more penalties than the human would have.
So you can buy an expert system that gives the ship Astrogator-3 in most circumstances and Astrogator-0 when the manure hits the rotary oscillating device.
I took this approach IMTU along with a general prejudice against automated control. And full robot control (not just supplementing human crew in every key position) would be considered illegal (voiding the insurance policy) for any merchant vessel taking on passengers or for a ship landing at major starports.
You end up with human crew because people have a prejudice against trusting their safety completely to a machine. You may get away with expert system gunners, or doubling up some positions (a highly rated expert pilot system, a highly rated expert astrogation system, and a human pilot/astrogator who monitors the systems and assumes control when necessary), or using robots to fill out secondary positions (chief engineer must be a person but if you have a couple of robots with expert systems on the relevant skills working all the time you don't need three engineers on the ship).
Also, robots are expensive. If it costs $360,000 each for those engineering robots that is more than the basic salary for an engineer. And the cost of the robot must be financed up front while the salary of that engineer can be paid out over time.
Also, a human engineer may receive medical treatment on a low tech world while that robot engineer cannot be repaired without access to appropriate parts. The higher tech the robot is the harder it can be to fix it. (same issue with designing a TL 15 merchant vessel instead of the basic tramp or far trader. You get better performance and/or more cargo space but the tramp trader can be fixed in many places where the TL 15 trader can't. (but your hull is made out of bonded superdense. We don't have the equipment to work that material....)
I like the way this works out. Traders avoid dependence on robots because you can hire a replacement engineer easier and cheaper than buying a replacement robot. But some villain with an entirely robot crew is still possible as an exception where having a crew that never gets drunk and talks too much is worth the cost.
Reynard
Emperor Mongoose
We see here on Earth today with LOTS of jobless, homeless people simply because the people at the top make oodles of money from automation. If we apply that logic in Traveller, as the tech level rises, billions and trillions of people have no employment. It might be fantasy but maybe the Long Night had an epiphany on the universe concerning relying heavily or solely on machines. Star Trek went that route too and Star Wars actually has sophonts use machines as tools rather than replacements. I'm sure there are many more examples and many seen to also revolve around distrust for too capable automation.
sideranautae
Mongoose
Reynard said:
No, not really. Just around 10 years ago the US had a jobless rate of only 6%. It has gone through the roof NOT because of further automation. Compare that 6% to a couple decades earlier when unemployment was MUCH higher but automation was less and you can see that your statement is untrue.
Reynard
Emperor Mongoose
It was 5.7 ten years ago and 6.6 twenty years ago. Average unemployment rate rose noticeably in the 1970s and 80s, good times for the new fangled automated system. Our most recent problem is not automation but super cheap foreign labor. Seems even a robot can be replaced. If our tech level in robotics ever improves the shift might start replacing the throwaway labor force again.
And, personally, I will never trust an automated vehicle.
And, personally, I will never trust an automated vehicle.
sideranautae
Mongoose
Reynard said:
Yep, and FAR more automation ten years ago than there was 20 years ago. As I correctly stated. Automation isn't the issue.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Reynard said:
YOU might not, but will your grandchildren? I don't trust voice recognition software (or autocorrect), but these technologies are in their infancies. Give them a couple decade, or centuries or millenium and people will never even consider typing...
There were people before WW2 that would never fly on a plane either - too dangerous... look at us now.
I would think that the megacorporations would try to automate their big super-freighters as much as possible; a LOT more than the military would.
So a Capital ship sized cargo ship will use as much specialty programming as it can to minimize the crew - even if you accept that they are Skill-0 in unusual situations. The long-term cost savings over the crew (think centuries of in-service time for these ships) would justify adding an additional/backup computer to handle all the specialties. Also, remember that these big superfreighters are not wandering around the universe like a tramp freighter. They might spend centuries jumping between two systems and never go anywhere else - how routine would that get?
Reynard
Emperor Mongoose
"I would think that the megacorporations would try to automate their big super-freighters as much as possible; a LOT more than the military would."
Today, neither do even though the tech is there, Why? Why do planes have autopilots with a full cockpit crew? Why aren't trains totally automated with today's technology. Because, no matter how sophisticated the automation, no one seems to trust them today. Probably a similar mentality in the Far Future. People have a hard time trusting a machine with their lives and property.
I do believe there have been examples of automated ships that make highly routine non-jump runs and that says there is some trust with higher tech automation for simple, dumb tasks in relatively safe environments. There have been attempts in stories and adventures with higher automation that never go far or didn't end well *cough*kinunir*cough* and soured such automation. What this does is not rule out such automation but make organic players important and the common element. It sure doesn't mean the players with the resources, talent and proper licenses can't upgrade their ship to something unique.
Today, neither do even though the tech is there, Why? Why do planes have autopilots with a full cockpit crew? Why aren't trains totally automated with today's technology. Because, no matter how sophisticated the automation, no one seems to trust them today. Probably a similar mentality in the Far Future. People have a hard time trusting a machine with their lives and property.
I do believe there have been examples of automated ships that make highly routine non-jump runs and that says there is some trust with higher tech automation for simple, dumb tasks in relatively safe environments. There have been attempts in stories and adventures with higher automation that never go far or didn't end well *cough*kinunir*cough* and soured such automation. What this does is not rule out such automation but make organic players important and the common element. It sure doesn't mean the players with the resources, talent and proper licenses can't upgrade their ship to something unique.
sideranautae
Mongoose
Condottiere said:
Now add the cost of the stateroom and the lost cargo revenue therefore, over 20+ years. The pilot is more expensive...
sideranautae
Mongoose
Fovean said:
There are no 3I laws about this. Some worlds may choose to make such laws. I doubt many would make sweeping laws given the HUGE commercial interests concerned.
Reynard
Emperor Mongoose
"Many worlds still use parts of the pre-lmperial Shudusham Concords as a model for their own laws to keep abuses with robots in check. Most worlds declare an owner to be responsible for the actions of his robot, even if the owner did not directly order the action. For example, if an owner orders his robot to protect his home, and in so doing the robot kills someone approaching the home, the owner can be charged with accidental murder."
Yeah, it may vary as does everything in the Imperium but it also left its mark on the growing empire for centuries to come. The average person will have the distrust both from history and general human unease with machine mimicking humans. A robot can be a smart tool or an intelligent weapon by swapping a part and changing the code.
Yeah, it may vary as does everything in the Imperium but it also left its mark on the growing empire for centuries to come. The average person will have the distrust both from history and general human unease with machine mimicking humans. A robot can be a smart tool or an intelligent weapon by swapping a part and changing the code.
