This is why I use remote operations as a limiter for example using a repair drone, your character has a Engineer of 3 but only a Remote ops of 1 you inexperience in doing things remotely hampers skill preventing you from using your engineering to its full extent, giving you only a Engineering of 1 when done remotely.
Robotic Drone Controllers and Remote Gunnery
- Thread starter Terry Mixon
- Start date
The repeated questions are does Remote Ops have enough depth to really be a skill and how do you use it. Here how I see it.
1) Remote Ops basically does two things it allows you to use a device to remotely use a Skill it also gives you the knowledge and technique to build, repair and set up remote systems/devices.
2) when using it to control a device it’s best used as a limiter to the action being used, but when setting/Repairing/designing drones or other remotely controlled equipment you make a remote ops check
1) Remote Ops basically does two things it allows you to use a device to remotely use a Skill it also gives you the knowledge and technique to build, repair and set up remote systems/devices.
2) when using it to control a device it’s best used as a limiter to the action being used, but when setting/Repairing/designing drones or other remotely controlled equipment you make a remote ops check
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
It's a specialization of Electronics, so that the system integration of a drone, for the electrical and electronic components at skill factor/zero is valid.
As well as interpretation from it's sensors, and hacking another drone.
Anything more intricate, you'd have to raise the levels of the other specializations.
As well as interpretation from it's sensors, and hacking another drone.
Anything more intricate, you'd have to raise the levels of the other specializations.
No that’s not the case. CRB pg 66. “This skill is used to operate electronic devices such as computers and ship-board systems. Higher levels represent the ability to repair and create electronic devices and systems. There are several specialities.” As you can see in the bold and underlined text Remote Ops includes the ability to repair and build remote ops equipment. While that wouldn’t mean say the drive on a repair drone it would mean the controls for that drive.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
I have been saying this whole time that the Remote Ops skill should be a limiter, not a skill that is rolled. It should merely tell you the maximum skill level that you can use remotely. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Simple. Easy to use. Easy to remember. No dice to roll except for whichever skill you are actually using.
Other than that. The way Remote Ops is described in the book is stupid. Technically, if you are firing your ships weapons from the bridge and not from inside the turret itself, would be using Remote Ops. Same with if you use the Ship's Main Computer to talk to the Ship's Backup Computer, you have to use Remote Ops. Why? Because you are talking to the Backup Computer through another device and not directly talking to the Backup Computer. By the description, every single hacking attempt would require the use of the Remote Ops skill. I do not believe that was the original intention of the skill, but it is how it reads descriptively.
I really do not like skills having different skill mechanics. Having Remote Ops as a limiter means it is an aberration. Once you open that door, the skills descend into anarchy as there is always another skill that could use a "tweak". As I have already stated the existing rule that using two skills at the same time effectively imposes a -2 penalty (it make the task 1 level harder) and if you use Remote Ops to conduct a task with another skill you are using two skills at the same time and it also requires a task chain to resolve those skills since they are dependent on one another.
This fixes everything that having it as a limiter would do and also does not introduce any new rules.
If you want to fire a turret from the bridge you need Remote Ops AND Gunner if you want to do a decent job. If you roll really well you might just get the full +3 from the task chain, but the Gunner roll is still effectively only +1 as it is a level harder because you are using two skills.
Making two skill rolls is not actually that time consuming and it is a lot simpler than having to remember a specialty of a skill follows a different rule to even the other specialties in the broad skill.
This fixes everything that having it as a limiter would do and also does not introduce any new rules.
If you want to fire a turret from the bridge you need Remote Ops AND Gunner if you want to do a decent job. If you roll really well you might just get the full +3 from the task chain, but the Gunner roll is still effectively only +1 as it is a level harder because you are using two skills.
Making two skill rolls is not actually that time consuming and it is a lot simpler than having to remember a specialty of a skill follows a different rule to even the other specialties in the broad skill.
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While I generally agree with you the problem comes when you start stacking more than two skill checks, for example your operating in a active ECM environment now you have to do Comm/Remote ops/gunnery now your up to three tests, if your controlling multiple drones now your making multiple 3 test in a single round. And this is just one example it can easily get even more complex
Actually FHP doesn’t do anything to counter ECM Jamming which is broad Frequency, it’s actually not even the purpose of FHP. FHP only helps to prevent interception of communications (it’s part of the modern code system) it combines with Encryption.
Here’s an interesting thought.
While. Remote OPs Drones/Robots are not used much in the Charted Space universe (im assuming at least for the solomani and the imperium it’s because of the “shudusham concords” and the Aslan because of honor) it’s implied to be common in the 2300 universe but it’s not really implemented in the books. There’s lots of ships that have drone racks but not many actual designed, there’s also almost no talk about using Drones/Robots as a force multiplier for planet side combat. Maybe a drone and robot combat book should reverse the normal trend and be 2300 focus first and other Traveller second?
While. Remote OPs Drones/Robots are not used much in the Charted Space universe (im assuming at least for the solomani and the imperium it’s because of the “shudusham concords” and the Aslan because of honor) it’s implied to be common in the 2300 universe but it’s not really implemented in the books. There’s lots of ships that have drone racks but not many actual designed, there’s also almost no talk about using Drones/Robots as a force multiplier for planet side combat. Maybe a drone and robot combat book should reverse the normal trend and be 2300 focus first and other Traveller second?
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I use them so I’d like to see it as a sourcebook for Traveller, too.
I never said it wouldn’t be a Traveller too source book just reverse focus, the vehicle handbook, robots, and others focus on Traveller first with 2300 a secondary focus, I’m just thinking that in this case the reverse might be better.
I think if you are in that sort of environment and don't have a dedicated crewmember to handle the ECM counter measures and dedicated gunners then you are in the doodoo. Your opponent brought better toys and deserves the win. Send out a decoy ballute and hard burn for atmo
I am also sure if your game got to that level of pressure your players would prefer to have multiple rolls to spread the bets. No-one likes losing a ship based on a single dice roll.
If you really were making 3 rolls for multiple drones then you would be hard pressed to make any of them as each roll is increased by a level of difficulty PER extra task. Assuming you start at Average that means each of those three rolls are Very Difficult for even a single drone. For 2 drones each roll is a level beyond Impossible (18+ to succeed). Fail any of those rolls early in the chain and you will probably be able to tell immediately that later tasks become impossible and save yourself some rolls.
Limpin Legin
Cosmic Mongoose
Yes, a wide bandwidth of ECM jamming is a potential flaw of the design. However, not sure the flaw is applicable to all designs. Eg: Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum (FHSS) has military uses for that very reason:
Frequency-hopping spread spectrum - Wikipedia
Hmmm... probably going to disagree with you on that. Platforms can rarely jam a sufficiently broad spectrum without inhibiting their own systems or those of their allies. The power requirement also increases the broader the spread. It also makes you a bigger target for anti-jamming weapons.
Weapon Guidance Jamming was the very application that FHP was designed to counter.
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
Also, having sufficiently higher tech equipment than your opponents is a cure for your EW headaches. Which is why you play nice so the Imperial Marines/Army does not land on your planet with ill intent.Yes, a wide bandwidth of ECM jamming is a potential flaw of the design. However, not sure the flaw is applicable to all designs. Eg: Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum (FHSS) has military uses for that very reason:
Frequency-hopping spread spectrum - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
-Daniel-
Emperor Mongoose
I will see if I can find the photos, they were showing small drones not large Air Force Drones. :-(
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Three skills if you are also flying the 50-ton fighter.
Now you are at three rolls....
The Drone controller has to be the one doing these things it’s part of controlling the drone.I think if you are in that sort of environment and don't have a dedicated crewmember to handle the ECM counter measures and dedicated gunners then you are in the doodoo. Your opponent brought better toys and deserves the win. Send out a decoy ballute and hard burn for atmo
who said anything about ship combat drones are more common planet side
which is another reason for not doing the multiple rolls and instead using the Remote Ops as a limit. Also a lot depends on your drone control equipment
Actually no FHP was one part of two designed to protect against enemies from listening in on communication and was actually first introduced in communication equipment. It was later adopted for direct guidance munitions.
That’s why we target active bands. It’s all part of ECM/ECCM which is a specialty in itself
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
In theory, a drone can operate autonomously, it's a question of how much we trust it to do so, and the guidelines programmed in to follow the operator's intent.
We need a connection to see what it's doing and what direct feedback, especially for realtime reconnaissance, updated instructions, and currently, remote control.
Three reasons to have to have a human operator is because we think we're better at assessing a situation, we want to know what's going on, and if it's armed, we decide if it should be triggered.
There seem to be two aspects of remote control, direct sensory feedback from the drone, and second hand feedback, or third party viewpoint, which would be the skill aspect in controlling a drone, in either case, understanding latency in receiving the feedback, and in carrying out instructions given by the operator.
We need a connection to see what it's doing and what direct feedback, especially for realtime reconnaissance, updated instructions, and currently, remote control.
Three reasons to have to have a human operator is because we think we're better at assessing a situation, we want to know what's going on, and if it's armed, we decide if it should be triggered.
There seem to be two aspects of remote control, direct sensory feedback from the drone, and second hand feedback, or third party viewpoint, which would be the skill aspect in controlling a drone, in either case, understanding latency in receiving the feedback, and in carrying out instructions given by the operator.
