Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Then say it's a special task chain that cannot have positive effects. Boom! Problem solved in a way that mostly fits in the existing rules.
Robotic Drone Controllers and Remote Gunnery
- Thread starter Terry Mixon
- Start date
Which is why using Remote Ops as a limit makes sense. There is a difference between driving a tank and remote controlling a tank for example.
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
You need the relevant skills to be good, but consider extenuating circumstances. Successful remote ops chaining could reflect the pilot ignoring restrictions on maneuvers that would be difficult or unhealthy to perform from a cockpit. High G maneuvers, for example. The pilot would be more cautious in the cockpit, but might fly the vehicle to just under its structural limits remotely. While not an ace, certainly more effective.
That same mindset could result in piloting the drone through an opening that is just a little too small on a failed chain, thereby successfully emulating every TIE Fighter ever involved in a chase.
Limpin Legin
Cosmic Mongoose
That is the granularity of the Traveller Term. It is nothing I've added. You repeat that my assumption is flawed, but it is not an assumption, it is a viewpoint having worked and learned about technology.
Fair enough, if you say the Air Force train drone pilots for years on end, then the speciality of Remote Ops should be a specialisation of Gunner. Ie Gunner(Remote Ops), not Electronics. [I.e., Stop putting blame on the shoulders of the Electronics Engineers, or their University faculties, for something that is not their forte. ]
How much more? So far I don't see where you have really addressed my enquiry about the skill specialisation. You had one or two objections, and I attempted to address these, but you are not forthcoming with examples that exemplify your perception of the skill speciality called Remote Ops. I mean, it is all very well saying what it isn't, but can you back up your claim with what it actually is? For RPG gameplay purposes, that is.
The maximum skill levels are capped at three times the sum of Intelligence (INT) and Education (EDU). What makes the Remote Ops specialty so significant that it warrants inclusion in this total?
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
Not having read the whole thread, I will say that the Ukrainians have been so successful using man-guided drones versus Russia that large defense companies are now designing specific anti-drone weapon systems. And when I say 'large defense companies' I mean heavy hitters like General Dynamics, Rheinmetal, and Boeing. Rheinmetal just offered up a system that looks like a .22 on steroids and has a backup auto-shotgun if the drone gets too close. Completely automated too.
[And for those of you with a morbid streak -- and I know you're out there
-- there's youtube footage of Ukrainian drones dropping white phosphorus grenades into Russian ammunition trucks while troops are unloading them. Eff'ing terrifying stuff]
[And for those of you with a morbid streak -- and I know you're out there
-- there's youtube footage of Ukrainian drones dropping white phosphorus grenades into Russian ammunition trucks while troops are unloading them. Eff'ing terrifying stuff]
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MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
I figure anything that makes more rolls required should be carefully considered. I would rather roll 2d6 once instead of multiple times. That could just be Me though.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Task chains are already a thing. One thing that leads into another and might affect it. This seems to count.
Let’s try this again. It does not take four years to learn a skill in Traveller. I term consists of a Whole lot more than just setting down and learning a single skill. Even while going to college most people do much more than learn a single skill or a group of skills. In fact according to the CRB it only takes 8 weeks to learn a skill. So your whole assertion that a skill takes 4 years to learn is false.
“TRAINING
In order to train for a new skill, or improve an existing
one, a Traveller must commit to a Study Period. A
Study Period is equal to eight weeks (or two months) of
study and practice. These weeks within a Study Period
need not be consecutive but each week must be fully
dedicated to study with at least eight hours per day
spent learning and practicing.”
And read this if you think that all there is to controlling a drone is a monitor and a joystick
CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
Not just Willie Pete. Thermite.And for those of you with a morbid streak -- and I know you're out there
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
You know, I actually feel sorry for the troops with all that. They aren't the ones who ordered the invasion, but they're the ones who'll pay most of the price. And I certainly don't blame the Ukrainians for having the unmitigated gall to defend their homes.Not just Willie Pete. Thermite.
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CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
Hawkeye: War isn’t Hell. War is war, and Hell is Hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse.
Father Mulcahy: How do you figure that, Hawkeye?
Hawkeye: Easy, Father. Tell me, who goes to Hell?
Father Mulcahy: Sinners, I believe.
Hawkeye: Exactly. There are no innocent bystanders in Hell. War is chock full of them — little kids, cripples, old ladies. In fact, except for some of the brass, almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
Kipling, because he says everything that needs to be said.
Therefore I lied to please the mob.
Now all my lies are proved untrue
And I must face the men I slew.
What tale shall serve me here among
Mine angry and defrauded young?
A Dead Statesman
I could not dig; I dared not rob:Therefore I lied to please the mob.
Now all my lies are proved untrue
And I must face the men I slew.
What tale shall serve me here among
Mine angry and defrauded young?
-Daniel-
Emperor Mongoose
I read about General Dynamics working on Anti-Drone emp pulse weapons back in early 2000's. I think the idea they would be needed has been in motion for a lot longer that we think.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
GD's EMP drone weapon was meant for UAVs.
The weapon I'm talking about is the kind of drone you can buy at Best Buy for $1000.... the little camera drones people play with.
Which makes them even more susceptible to even the slightest EMP.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
1. Supposedly, it takes six years to train a (combat) pilot, including unit integration; wartime it's about a half a year, if you're desperate, to two.
2. The Ukrainians had eight years to prepare, since they knew, the Twenty Fourteen invasion wasn't the end of it.
3. At that time, volunteers offered up their expertise, whether in electronics, engineering, or computer flight simulations.
4. A lot was crowdfunded.
5, The Russians had more money and more drones, in Twenty Fourteen.
6. One view is that Ukraine is both the rise and decline of drone warfare.
7. Outside of reconnaissance, they're used as cheap cruise missiles.
8. And the prevalence of that, I'm told, is because they don't have enough artillery shells.
9. Now that their actual danger has been displayed, counter measures will be developed.
2. The Ukrainians had eight years to prepare, since they knew, the Twenty Fourteen invasion wasn't the end of it.
3. At that time, volunteers offered up their expertise, whether in electronics, engineering, or computer flight simulations.
4. A lot was crowdfunded.
5, The Russians had more money and more drones, in Twenty Fourteen.
6. One view is that Ukraine is both the rise and decline of drone warfare.
7. Outside of reconnaissance, they're used as cheap cruise missiles.
8. And the prevalence of that, I'm told, is because they don't have enough artillery shells.
9. Now that their actual danger has been displayed, counter measures will be developed.
Limpin Legin
Cosmic Mongoose
Thanks for your patience.
If the handset is not dedicated (matched) to each drone, then the user would also have to logon as well. And if it is military, then it would be expected that there is a password authentication requirement too. How long would these take to learn? A few hours or a week at the most? That is not significant amount of time, within the granularity of either of the Traveller skill advancement timeframes (by Career or by Training).
The crux of my question remains.
What your link shows me is a lot of Gunner or Pilot skill, certainly, but not anything that presents new challenges, from a remote user point of view.
Do you see the point I am trying to raise, here?
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Yeah, but Remote Ops isn't a separate thing. You are literally using the same controls to operate the remote as you would if it were hardwired, so why is Remote Ops a separate skill? As a poor example, if your ships guns are run individually by guys in the turret with a game controller, how is that different then controlling them remotely with the same game controller? I am not even sure if there is enough there for it to count as a different skill when Remote Ops can use the same control equipment as a person with a controller physically connected to the system.
Technically, everything that is electronically controlled is "Remote Ops" since you are not mechanically controlling the system with your body, as opposed to touching some buttons and the system then interprets your commands and turns them into actions. So, almost everything is technically remotely operated.
Also consider how much training you get to play a computer game vs the training required to use military equipment (I am not talking the use case here, just manipulating the interface). A good interface can make all the difference and military interfaces are often sub-optimal. The control elements in the drone itself can also fast track things that would be difficult to complete manually.
However Conducting an activity remotely should be a level of difficulty higher than conducting them in person as your situational awareness is at a remove. This also ties in the rule that performing multiple skill checks imposes -2. When using a skill via a drone you are using that skill, plus Remote Ops. Apply a single -2 not both.
It is also possible that it is not the task itself that creates an issue but the lead up to it. Exerting yourself prior to a delicate operation can induce physical stress that impairs that operation. A drone operator sitting safe in a chair 10 miles away need not suffer that physical stress. If their drone gets destroyed, they can roll in another one without suffering personal harm.
If you apply a -2 to the task and then have a task chain with Remote Ops you resolve the "it'd be easier by remote" scenario. The absolute best result you could get would be +1 over person present, but most of the time you will be worse. One a bad day you could be at -5 compared to the man on the spot.
Remote ops are always harder, but a good remote ops roll can negate that penalty entirely. On a really good day you might even gain a slight advantage over the person present in the situation as you don't have to worry about expiring in your suit, getting shot at or whatever.
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Remote Ops skill covers a whole range of devices which is why it’s more often a limiter than a skill check. Controlling something remotely is different than doing it directly for one in many cases the lack of tactile response is a problem, in others the lack of 3D vision. I’ve known pilots that crashed a remote control airplane for a while until they got used to the difference between flying and remote flying. Also you only looked at the pilot Remote Ops covers much more than that “This skill is used to operate electronic devices such as computers and ship-board systems. Higher levels represent the ability to repair and create electronic devices and systems. There are several specialities.” So say level 0 and 1 are basically just remote operations than levels 2-4 are repair, building, and designing remote systems in a drone.
