Response on Armageddon Posts

MongooseMatt

Administrator
Staff member
Hi guys,

Wanted to say a few things about Armageddon, prompted by this post;

Apachex said:
It is definately not on par with SFOS.

True - it was never intended to be. The point of Armageddon was twofold - first, introduce the Armageddon level ships (and thus push the large Vorlon and Shadow ships above the power level of the iconic ships of other races) and 'trim' the rules to bring them more in line with what we wanted and what you chaps had asked for.

We _could_ have done a complete re-write, in effect a SFoS II, with all new fleet lists, but we did not believe the game was quite ready for that. Instead, we aimed to bring the game to 95% of what we intend it to be. It is the aim of second edition CTA to make that 100% - but the leap could not have been made this year. After all, there are still things we want your feedback from (not all of which are in Armageddon - expect some new ships and fleets over the coming months).

Overall, we believe Armageddon is a worthy addition to CTA, building the game up to a more complete and solid system. The tweaks to, for example, Energy Mines and Stealth traits serve to balance the game very finely, as do the revisions in the FAQ section. Contrary to the posts of a few of you, the EA fleet really did need splitting up - aside from encouraging the use of In Service dates and allowing us to explore other eras of the B5 universe (look out for more Dilgar related material), it also stopped what is the most popular fleet from becoming a sprawling mass.

We are considering all your comments on the Amrageddon ships themselves but believe, as a concept, the PL is solid. Some ships, such as the Adira and Shaodws/Vorlons, sit there very well. Our big question at the moment is how to handle them in tournaments without taking something away from the smaller ships (the latter was the reason we changed the PL point splits - and that seems to have worked).

The Ancients themselves are for 'special' games - we expect players to pretty much take them or leave them. But try them out at least once, as you can have some truly high-powered games, without covering the table with ships.

Last, you have the scenarios - and I believe these are some of the best we have done for the game, my particular favourites being Border Dispute and Hunting the Hunters.

In summary, we knew Armageddon would not be the silver bullet that would make the game perfect, with no discernable flaws. But it would take the game 95% of the way there, allowing us to collate your responses and produce something. . . quite wonderful next year. . .

In the meantime, however, you can expect to see a range of new ships over the next few months, starting with the Tiger Starfuries. We have specced up pretty much everything in Ships of the Galaxy (yes, even alien civilian ships!) and now we are working through exactly what to release. The main cause of contention that Armageddon brings seems to be the Sagittarius (there was a reason for it, I swear!). Given the general overwhleming mass of opinion on this ship, we will be releasing a new set of stats for it in next month's S&P.

We always listen to all your comments :)
 
thanks matt your response to the outcry at the saggitarius, at least we know youre listening :) Youve restored some of my faith! how much faith will depend on the new stats of course ;)
 
it'll be patrol level before we know it. . .

It's great that you are doing something about it Matt, however it must be said, thie Saggi issue has existsed since the tourney lists, surely enough time to be noticed and dealt with. The playtesters frequent this board a lot and should have been able to bring it to your attention, if yourself or Bry hadn't picked it up.
Hopefully we can get back on track in second ed, and avoid this whole armageddon thing, we can look back, laugh nervously, and pretend it never happened. but um, well only one other thing, really, can we get a proof reader?
 
Dont suppose knocking the Warlock and the shadow omega back to war Pl is on the cards? :wink: :wink:

Pretty please?
 
dant164 said:
Dont suppose knocking the Warlock and the shadow omega back to war Pl is on the cards? :wink: :wink:

We are certianly considering it for CTA 2e but have no plans to shift them just yet, as this would likely have a knock-on effect with several ships.
 
Probably not the right thread for this suggestion (I expect there'll be more for 'what should go in 2nd ed' threads in future but..)

As much as I like the PL system in theory, I think the sheer number of ships we have available to choose from now for most fleets is starting to really make it hard to balance fleets using it. Might be time to consider switching over to a more traditional points system...
 
msprange said:
dant164 said:
Dont suppose knocking the Warlock and the shadow omega back to war Pl is on the cards? :wink: :wink:

We are certianly considering it for CTA 2e but have no plans to shift them just yet, as this would likely have a knock-on effect with several ships.

Wouldnt that render Armageddon totally obsolete?
 
dant164 said:
msprange said:
dant164 said:
Dont suppose knocking the Warlock and the shadow omega back to war Pl is on the cards? :wink: :wink:

We are certianly considering it for CTA 2e but have no plans to shift them just yet, as this would likely have a knock-on effect with several ships.

Wouldnt that render Armageddon totally obsolete?

Well since a large portion of the players think Armageddon is somewhat obsolete anyway...
 
The point is some people have already bought it only to have it rendered obsolete, why couldnt MP just hold off armageddon untill CTA 2 was launched?
 
dant164 said:
The point is some people have already bought it only to have it rendered obsolete, why couldnt MP just hold off armageddon untill CTA 2 was launched?

profits?
 
also lets be honest do you REALLY want to wait another year for the updates?

You could argue I suppose that the rules tweaks could have been done in rules supplement books like the cheap little ones that came out originally, but thast just nitpicking tbh :p

Afterall its not like Armageddon is THAT expensive, lets not forget that whilst it isnt another SFoS its also half the price of said book....
 
Thanks for the feedback, Matt, and thanks also for the response on the Sag issue.

Armageddon PL does make sense for the big Vorlon and Shadow ships - although I'm with dant164 on the Warlock and Shadomega.

Is there any chance of seeing 'optional' or 'playtest' rules published in S&P reflecting some of the concerns aired on the forums? I'm thinking of Centauri beam (or not) weapons and the fighter firing sequence in particular.
 
Yeah, but £15 for what amounts to 2 pages of rules updates and a FAQ which should be online anyway is a bit much.
 
hiffano said:
dant164 said:
The point is some people have already bought it only to have it rendered obsolete, why couldnt MP just hold off armageddon untill CTA 2 was launched?

profits?

I have nothing against MP making profit, after all it means they can support their lines better BUT

Its a slippery slope leading to EE if your not careful.


The road to bankrupcy is paved with good ideas....
 
Most of the stuff in Armageddon could have been catered for via Signs and Portents. The EA stuff probably should have been a separate book like the Earth Minbari War one, and the Ancients could have been a separate book as well, similar in size and price to the Drakh or Dilgar books.

Other than that, I'm glad there will be further support for the Dilgar in the coming months. About time too! :wink:
 
msprange said:
dant164 said:
Dont suppose knocking the Warlock and the shadow omega back to war Pl is on the cards? :wink: :wink:

We are certianly considering it for CTA 2e but have no plans to shift them just yet, as this would likely have a knock-on effect with several ships.

I'd second the Warlock going back to War level at the very least. The Mid-late EA need a decent line ship at War level.
 
hiffano said:
Hopefully we can get back on track in second ed, and avoid this whole armageddon thing, we can look back, laugh nervously, and pretend it never happened.

A bit like ThirdSpace? :)
 
I am new to this game. Armegeddon is the second publication I have purchased produced by Mongoose and I have to say I understand books are expensive to produce these days and of course there is the license to consider but I was a little disapointed from my point of view £15.00 plus P+P was expensive for little content 2 pages of rules adjustments unless you are an EA player. I should have perhaps purchased A Sky full of Stars being new but after seeing Armegeddon I think I would need to see a copy first before spending £25.00 plus P+P after all this is quite a few minis.

Regards.
Martin
 
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