Reach

[Supplement Four]

Oh, and in AD&D, you could get at most THREE attacks if your speed factor was low enough, not the actual ratio of factors.

Yeah, I know that. The difference is that there is a 16.67% chance each round that the extra attacks occur. In what I wrote above, it only happens when a character attempts it, and then, it's only 16.67% successful--which is a lot lower probability of this ever happening. So, I made the rare results more desireable.

I think it needs tweaking, though. I'm not happy with it.

I'd like to figure a way to easily import the 1E AD&D thing so that its checked each round, but I'd want to do it in an unobtrusive, easy manner. I don't want to roll an extra check each melee round.

And, I wouldn't touch the Conan RPG magic system. I think its brilliant. D&D can keep its system.

I just liked the extra "umph" that a dagger gets when used against a slower, bigger weapon.

 

[rabindranath72]

And, I wouldn't touch the Conan RPG magic system. I think its brilliant. D&D can keep its system.

I just liked the extra "umph" that a dagger gets when used against a slower, bigger weapon.

I am not sure I understand what you did. I quoted the AD&D text since you spoke about AD&D's speed factor as a "true speed factor," which is actually not.

RE: magic, it's not about touching the magic system. It's understanding how casting spells works with your revised initiative. Would a dagger be fast enough to interrupt a spell caster?

 

[Supplement Four]

I am not sure I understand what you did.

I used the 1E AD&D lighter weapon multiple attack rule as a basis for a rule in Conan.

But, I'm not happy with the results.

I quoted the AD&D text since you spoke about AD&D's speed factor as a "true speed factor," which is actually not.

"If the difference is at least twice the factor of the lower,
or 5 or more factors in any case, the opponent with the lower factored
weapon is entitled to 2 attacks before the opponent with the higher
weapon factor is entitled to any attack whatsoever. If the difference is 10
or greater, the opponent with the lower-factored weapon is entitled to 2
attacks before the opponent is allowed to attack, and 1 further attack..."

You're correct. I was working off memory. I got "true factor" from that bit about "twice the factor of the lower". And, really, I was comparing the factor as it was used in 2E (a modifier, not a factor at all, and much, much different than how its used in 1E AD&D).



The 1E method is too "fussy". But, I like what its trying to do. I'd like to find a "non-fussy" way of including it in Conan.

RE: magic, it's not about touching the magic system. It's understanding how casting spells works with your revised initiative. Would a dagger be fast enough to interrupt a spell caster?

What I wrote above would only apply to melee. Spells would go either before or after the melee combat, depending on overall initiative.

The 1E AD&D combat round is extremely interesting, if painstakingly slow. People complain about how slow a D&D 3E/Conan combat round can be. Heck, they should try 1E AD&D!

It would be neat to find a good mesh between the two.

 

[Supplement Four]

In basic terms, what would be neat is a low-involvement method of allowing light weapons extra attacks a very small percentage of the time.

 

[rabindranath72]

I don't find AD&D combat slow at all; at least not as slow as 3e or Conan when attacks of opportunity or tons of modifiers (or unarmed combat!) enter into play.
Some of the intricacies of combat in AD&D only enter into play with initiative ties. Otherwise, it's quite smooth.

 

[rabindranath72]

In basic terms, what would be neat is a low-involvement method of allowing light weapons extra attacks a very small percentage of the time.

A simple rule might be to state that when combatants are engaged into melee, those who have lighter weapons may make one more attack for each size category difference; this applies only when there are ties in initiative.

 

[Mach5RR]

You guys are forgetting something. Grappling. In a successful grapple, the only weapons that can be used are light ones (aka our friend the dagger). So imagine Conan rushing in, grappling his opponent and denying him the use of his longer reach weapon, while repeatedly stabbing him with the dagger.

Most of the other suggestions strike me as trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Someone armed with a knife vs a sword will probably get -less- attacks. Parrying with a dagger should be hard, and attempting to dodge while confining yourself up close strikes me as ridiculous. Someone armed with a dagger won't move into that threatened area unless he knows he has an absolute strike.

 

[Supplement Four]

You guys are forgetting something.

The other thing we're forgetting is critical hits. 3E/Conan has a very structed critical hit system. IIRC, 1E AD&D did not (the natural 20 double damage rule was a widely used house rule--but I don't think it was in the rules, per se).

Thus, if you used a dagger in 1E AD&D, you always did 1d4 damage (vs Sm and Med creatures) unless you got an extra attack via the d6 initiative toss.

So, this may be superceded by the 3E formal Critical hit rules.

Grappling. In a successful grapple, the only weapons that can be used are light ones (aka our friend the dagger).

And, a case can be made for long weapons, too. That 10 foot reach, if used properly, can stop your opponent from always using extra attacks. If he's gets 2 attacks per round because of his level, and you attack from 5 feet out with your reach weapon, then use your 5 foot step to increase the distance to 10 feet at the end of the round, your opponent has to cover that distance to attack you. Thus he can't use a full action because he's moving 10 feet--and even if he got 2 attacks per round, because he moved, he can only use one attack. With a reach weapon, you've robbed him of an attack.

Now, you can't do this every round, but you can maneuver on the combat grid to do it quite often.

This is one way to take advantage of a reach weapon.

Most of the other suggestions strike me as trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

I don't really think of it as a problem--more of a preferance.

Someone armed with a knife vs a sword will probably get -less- attacks.

Sure. And, the 1E rule doesn't go overboard. It's only a 16.67% chance that a person using a dagger will get a single extra attack vs longsword weilding oppoinent in a combat round.

I like the added deadlieness for shorter, lighter weapons using the rule.

 

[Supplement Four]

Here's a thought.

Treat the speed factor comparison the same as you would a Critical Hit--use a similar mechanic.

Follow 1E AD&D closely. Use the rule quoted above (where it usually results in 1 extra attack, two very rarely). Use 1E AD&D speed factors.

Don't throw the d6, though. On the first attack of the weapon with the smaller speed factor, consider a d6 match if the d20 attack results in a natural 18-19-20*. That means 15% of the time, the rule comes into play.

This in no way affects Critical Damage. All Conan game rules remain unchanged. We're just adding in this bit.





For example:

Conan uses a dagger (SF 2), but he does not have initiative. The Vanir wielding the war spear (SF 8 ) does.

For simplicity's sake, we'll assume both Conan and the Vanir only have one attack per round.

The Vanir would go first, taking his actions and attack normally.

Conan, since he has the weapon with the smaller speed factor, uses the new rule. If he rolls a natural 18-19-20 on his attack, he will get one extra attack (per the rule). If he rolls a 19-20, he gets the extra attack AND his first attack is a Critical Threat.


Situation One --

Conan rolls a natural 18 .... he gets a bonus attack this round (since, by the rule: SF 8 - SF 2 = 6. 6 is more than 5 factors.).



Situation Two --

Conan rolls a natural 19 or natural 20 ... he gets a bonus attack as above. Plus, this first blow is a Critical Threat (19/20 for a dagger).

The second attack can also serve as the Critical Threat Check. That way, you're not rolling extra dice for any reason.



Thus, if Conan's first attack is 19, and his second attack hits, his first blow does critical damage while his second bonus attack does normal damage.

If Conan's first attack is a 19, and his second attack misses, then his first attack does only normal damage (because both the bonus attack, also serving as the Critical Threat Check, failed to hit the target).





*This is only ever checked on the first attack in the melee round of the character using the weapon with the smaller SF. And, there's no need to even check his if an extra attack is not possible. For example, a dagger (SF 2) vs a broadsword (SF 5). The difference there is 3, so no extra attack is possible--so no need to check.





This is a "no fuss" method of implementing this rule in the Conan RPG. No extra rolls needed. The rule remains intact from 1E AD&D. And, nothing about the Conan RPG has to change to allow it.