Re- Release huh !!!

[Faschist Hippy]

So apparently the game's getting Re- Release in August !?!
And the only thing mentioned is that the rules are being updaled and changed !!
But ther's no news on any new models, except pre- painted :shock: !!

ones which I find the Concept quite insulting as part of the hobby is to construct and paint your models

And I for one Personally Feel that the game will go low market and the once proud Mongoose Publishing games will appear in the high street stores along with Barbies, Kens !!!!!

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

If they can get SST and BF:Evo minis into the high street then that's a pretty good thing if you ask me.

While SST is going to prepainted minis, Mongoose are going to continue producing the existing minis line for the forseeable future, so all you'll be missing will the Forth, dropships, and whatever other new stuff will be coming out.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hi there,

This is close to a rant, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt here. However, you are in error on a number of points;

1. The rules being updated and changed is most certainly not the only thing that has been mentioned. We have previewed prototypes of the models, and have made the core rules a free download. As for the rest, you'll be getting new information on a monthly basis as we run up to the launch.

2. If you find yourself _insulted_ by the concept of pre-painted miniatures, I am afraid the problem likely does not lie with us. We have never denied the painting and modelling aspect of the hobby (I try to find time for both myself every weekend), and we have maintained the original models will remain available for as long as stocks last on the plastics, and indefinetely for metals. However, there are many, many gamers out there who are going to appreciate not having to spend a month or more constructing an army before playing. This is whom we are aiming at.

3. If you take a look at the rules for the Evo games, you will find we are doing anything but aiming low. We are not even aiming at the 'click' market. This is a serious, in-depth set of wargaming rules.

4. We are not even contemplating going to the high street chains with the Evo rules. First, because the rules are too complicated for that market. Second, because we have no intention of competing head to head with the likes of Hasbro. It is simply not a market we would even consider entering without a few million pounds invested into the system, linked to a TV advertising campaign. And even then I would be hesitant. It is just not us.

 

[JoseDominguez]

Who decided wargamers had to paint and model too????

Noone, it's been an enforced part of the hobby because there were no alternatives.

I'm a teacher, I can paint, I'm pretty good. But I don't get the time. Pre-paints are an ideal option for me where my biggest limiting factor is time.

I find the whole 'I'm insulted by pre-painted models' stance hilarious.

Nobody is making you buy them. And like I've said before, I'd far rather play against pre-painted armies of acceptable models than the half painted badly assembled stuff that is common.

I'd never have the time to paint models for more than one game, with pre-paints I can play SST, Evo, AT43 and save my painting for the really good stuff I want out on the shelf.
There are hundreds of unpainted models out there. Buy some of those.
SST was in danger, vanishing from so many shops it was unbelievable.
Maybe mongoose should have consulted you first before they insulted you by changing the game.

The way mongoose are releasing non collectable (you get what you see) models changes Evo from just another 'hobby' game to a true wargame. Now we'll have to face players who really want to play the games, but have no interest in painting etc....

And who the hell decided playing a tabletop game was the elitist realm of 'hobby painters?'

We've all ran into people who think this way, when you're about 14 and go into a games shop, some know all who thinks his painting makes him important and laughs at you because you haven't heard of Call of Cthulhu

The ones that can't paint hang around comic shops by the way.

Screw it, 20 years ago I wouldn't have admitted playing computer games to a girl, now it's an acceptable mainstream pass time.

Looks like Mongoose may do for wargaming what Sony did for the perception of computer games.

 

[MaxSteiner]

... Damnit, thats what I was doing wrong... stupid computer games ruining my chances with the ladies

Um... yeah...

I think you're selling yourself short there to be honest Matt.
I've just ended up buying into Heroscape (.... I know, I know its for kids but it was 15 quid, and the tiles are soooooo cool!), and to be honest from what I've seen here the Evo figs are tons better.
Herclix has just burned all their bridges with the hobby community by sigining an exclusive distrubution deal with Diamond (Who as anyone who's ever dealt with them will tell you are a bit of a hassle at times), and releasing all the exclusive miniatures for sale ruinig any of the collectable element.
Theres really nothing else in the market at present which compares, and as far as I can tell the purpose of the swanky boxes is for the product to be seen
Maybe Toys R Us is a bit dangerous, but something like distrubtion through Game (or whatever Electronic Boutiques called these days) making use of Rebellions market presence could work out pretty well.

 

[JoseDominguez]

Black Shroud....... sorry if I sounded irritated, but this is about the 20th identical 'pre-paints are bad' thread.
Could you maybe post up some photos of your painted forces so we can see why you are so upset by the new ones?

 

[Greg Smith]

It's not you know. Heroscape is a suprisingly tactical game. And you get a shed-load of painted figures (and a compklete game) for the price of two BF:E tanks. Sure they may not be the best painted figures ever, but one of them is a dragon! We currently have a Heroscape league at our games club alternating with an ACTA campaign and they are both a lot of fun.

 

[MaxSteiner]

I've only played two games of it so far and Im loving it
I like the fact its over so quickly, and the from what I can tell you never really feel as though its not worth carying on.
I kinda wish I could get the expansions without paying 11-12 quid for six figures, $11 is far more reasonable
Intrestingly enough made by the same two people responsable for Heroquest and Battlemaster!

 

[JoseDominguez]

I bought my nephews it for christmas......... pretty interesting, and loads of stuff in the box.


Has anyone played battlelore? It's technically a board game, but absolutely superb. We got it when EVO was put back as a stopgap, really good system.

 

[Drahazar]

I think they should supply both prepainted for people who have no time to paint and just want to buy and play and sell ones that require you to build and paint them that way both sides get what they want. I prefer to put together and paint my own modles and i don't like prepainted ones cause they normally all suck and then i have to paint over them to make them look decent. but I don't think the ones who are fine with pre assembled and pre painted minatures should be denied that. To me thats more people to play the game and have fun which is the purpose of a table top game is to have fun. Support both sides and they will come.

 

[JoseDominguez]

The pre-paints can be painted over (so it saves assembly and undercoating). And mongoose are going to keep selling the unpainted stuff they allready make. Plus, who knows, maybe once it's established new unpainted stuff will be available too?

Anyway, it's the way of the future
Why should wargaming be exclusive to painters and modellers? And why should painters and modellers have to play against shodily assembled crap?
There are lots of unpainted unassemble models out there, so everyone should be able to find a happy medium.

 

[Drahazar]

yep supply both and both partys are happy and more people will play.

 

[tneva82]

ones which I find the Concept quite insulting as part of the hobby is to construct and paint your models

For some. For others no. Since you can paint them yourself if you wish(or just buy old models if you also like to assemble) what's the problem? This caters for BOTH groups...Those who like to paint(I certainly won't be keeping original paint job on them. I have too large armies with their own colour schemes to start doing that) and those who don't(not everybody enjoys to paint or have time to paint).

Both sides can do what they want. Better than only one. I for one don't think only people with time to paint should be allowed to play this game :wink: More players the better!

And I for one Personally Feel that the game will go low market

Mongoose is having more of a trouble to keep up with the demand for BF:evo so doesn't look like that :lol:

 

[Mr Evil]

pre paint is the thing keepin me in the hobby, if i wanna paint i still can with conversions or proxy stuff.

the only limit in life is your self.

 

[Turtle]

Not to be a jerk, but for every hobbyist modeler, there's double or triple the amount of people who just want to game and are willing to play these kind of games. Just look in your store at all the unpainted or unassembled models being played with in stores. Also take a look at how various CCG, CMG, board, card and various other games have fared lately while the miniatures market is slowly dwindling. In fact, the best miniature wargame out right now is probably Heroscape.

The time is ripe to appeal to the more casual market. And the fact that Mongoose is still supporting the hobbyist market by keeping the unpainted models around is only a plus.

The ability for companies releasing prepainted miniature wargames is key to bringing in a lot of new players into the miniature wargaming fold, and it's those people that the hobbyist community can then pull from to find even more modelers and painters, which in turn will hopefully bring back the modeling and painting hobby.

But for now, I'm very much content to play the game, as I don't have much time for the hobby.

 

[dant164]

Who decided wargamers had to paint and model too????

Noone, it's been an enforced part of the hobby because there were no alternatives.

This is where the problem lies as far as I am concerned. As already mentioned MGP are continuing the pre-existing lines for those of us who want to paint our minis ourselves BUT it has also been said that none of the new lines will be produced in either bare metal or bare plastic. Now people who wish to field the new dropships, or indeed the entire Forth army have no choice but to buy the pre-paints. I mean it may not have as much to do with a quality of the Pre-paints as it does the colour schemes.... the image of a blue and yellow forth walker is still etched painfully into my mind.

 

[Poko]

...if you'r a dedicated painter, then i'm sure there will be a can of black spray in your house, and just think that they'v already saved you the bother of putting together the model so you can put more effort into painting the mini.

i'm pretty certain that MG doesn't have the funds to field Paint Police that will intervene whenever someone tries to re-paint their models :wink:

 

[dant164]

What about people who would like to convert/modify their models?

To be honest my real dislike for SST: Evo lies in the fact i don't think SST needed changing in the first place, it was a game i enjoyed, a lot of my freins an I have stopped playing it since the new SST:Evo announcement, to be honest a lot of us feel let down.


Disclaimer

This post is NOT designed to be taken as flame bait, its an opinion and a statement, please don't take it as either a rant, a flame, a troll or whatever popular slange used nowadays for people looking for a fight.

 

[Poko]

still can do? it's plastic, easier to modify than the metal most of the minis were made from.

as for the second part-i'm afraid that you'r rather isolated in that. in most places the game was doing not so well(for eg-when it was imported to my place, there was an initaial surge of players. half a year later what, 10 remain more or less active?)

*EDIT*-deleted the wrong quote/link

 

[Voracioustigger]

Well, I do agree that I liked playing the original SST more than any other game, there were a lot of flaws and abuses that were starting to come out, which would have at least required an update soon.

Major problems included...

Imbalances of Priority levels
Imbalances of Mission points
Over/under-costed units
Vague jumping rules
etc.

It was definitely still playable, but an update would have been necessary (we weren't far from everyone figuring out the few most dominant configurations) soon. That coupled with the fact that while SST did well in some small pockets, I'm sure it didn't take off as much as MGP had hoped. They didn't steal as many GW players as they had probably hoped for, and new players had little reason to start SST with (what appeared to be) only 2 1/2 armies over 40k, because they really appear to be quite similar to those unfamiliar with wargaming.

I think this re-release is a way to better balance the game and update it AND appeal to new wargamers instead of trying to steal gamers away from other mini games.