Rail lines on high TL worlds?

Population density tends to dictate railway routes for passenger traffic.

And frequency.

And you have to recall, manoeuvre drive embedded spacecraft do vertical take offs and landings.
 
... you are correct. Sorry, i was just flipping through anything i could find with vehicle stuff, but you're right, its mongoose 1e, not CT. (Sorry, my organization ... leaves something to be desired. I LIKE MONGOOSE 2E .. and everything else just gets tossed in the same place.. I thought i was in CT stuff, and only cursorily saw the words classic traveller when i was flipping through.. there's a reason i said CT? in the first post i mentioned it, I wasn't really looking carefully)
Still can't find explicit rules for anything but the locomotives (whether steam or grav) and a crappy trailer/towing rule that's not applicable for railways, really. Am I missing it - as in I can't see the words for the trees?(!?) (or was it in GURPS?)
 
Maglevs aren't limited to local trains. It is a propulsion tech, that could be used by any kind of rail over any distance. Long distances make more sense than short for maglev because of its extreme speed. So far I think the maglev lines are mostly short, because it is still in a proof of concept stage.
Still need to maintain tracks and right of ways. Grav-trains do not.
There is not such a clear dividing line between urban and intercity trains, but rather a gradation of types. IRL, many big cities have trams, subways, urban railways, regional trains, interregional and intercity. For many journeys, the traveller can choose between them. Helsinki-Tampere, for example is normally intercity service because of the distance, but is it possible to take a regional train, which uses the same cars as the urban train, if you don't mind taking twice as long. These travel the same tracks but have different cars and engines than the intercity. Helsinki subways, however, have different and lighter and slower cars than the urban trains, and trams still different and even slower.
All of these are considered "light rail". Heavy Rail, is the 100+ cars of freight per train travelling between cities.
If we are talking about a Traveller setting, though, the trains will be whatever is useful, or logically arises in a particular situation.

In terms of archologies, you'd have transport within, but also between them, and likely different types of trains depending on how far you go. Elevated trains would definitely be a way to save time taking those turbo-lifts.
Why use an elevated train to go between arcologies instead of a grav-train? A grav-train can depart and enter an arcology at any level. No other train can do that. Trees or terrain in your path? No worries, you cruise over it. None of the other trains can do that.
The NY to LA connection uses 60s retro-tech like all the long distance Amtrack lines. I took Minneapolis to Portland and it was definitely an experience from another era.
This is only because the US is stupid and corrupt. (speaking as an American) Our infrastructure hasn't been upgraded properly in over 80 years. The last major infrastructure push in the US, Eisenhower was President.

You don't see any TL-13 worlds in Charted Space still using American-style Space Shuttles to reach orbit. Or Saturn V rockets to send passengers and cargo from planetary surface to the planet's moon. So why would its rail system be 4+ TLs behind the TL of the world? Even the outdated US rail system isn't 4+ TLs behind. It just makes no sense. These worlds were founded at TL-12 and higher. They did not have to earn their TL the way Terra had to.
 
You don't see any TL-13 worlds in Charted Space still using American-style Space Shuttles to reach orbit. Or Saturn V rockets to send passengers and cargo from planetary surface to the planet's moon. So why would its rail system be 4+ TLs behind the TL of the world? Even the outdated US rail system isn't 4+ TLs behind. It just makes no sense. These worlds were founded at TL-12 and higher. They did not have to earn their TL the way Terra had to.
A fusion powered maglev would not be 4 TL's behind an average colony. Sometimes it makes sense to have a set course with a dependable schedule. Sometimes a flock of grav-crates is logical. Just like some worlds can only build Traveller 2300 style orbital shuttles to move goods to a space station.
 
Still can't find explicit rules for anything but the locomotives (whether steam or grav) and a crappy trailer/towing rule that's not applicable for railways, really. Am I missing it - as in I can't see the words for the trees?(!?) (or was it in GURPS?)
i THINK you're looking at heavy ground vehicle page 14.
Trains are their own chassis type, page 15. locomotives in the first column, and train cars in the second column
 
i THINK you're looking at heavy ground vehicle page 14.
Trains are their own chassis type, page 15. locomotives in the first column, and train cars in the second column
Must be yet another version, because in my hard copies of both Supplement 5: Civilian Vehicles and Supplement: 6 Military Vehicles, those pages are all about weapons and weapon mounts.
 
Huh. This is 5-6 Vehicle Handbook. First paragraph of the introduction:

Welcome to the Vehicle Handbook. This book replaces Supplement 5: Civilian Vehicles and Supplement 6: Military Vehicles in the Traveller range, to provide you with one core
reference to create your own vehicles and quickly access your own designs.
 
MasterGwydion just to be clear here. You are saying that grav trains do not need tracks. I don't know if 2nd edition has changed it or not but in Mongoose's 1st edition supplement 05 - civilian vehicles pg 60 they mention that grav train trains use a specially designed grav track.
 
No, he's talking about grav vehicles, that happen to act like trains, but not bound to the ground in any way. Not a grav train per the supplement you're talking bout.
 
MasterGwydion just to be clear here. You are saying that grav trains do not need tracks. I don't know if 2nd edition has changed it or not but in Mongoose's 1st edition supplement 05 - civilian vehicles pg 60 they mention that grav train trains use a specially designed grav track.
To Me this is a Mag-lev train, not a Grav-train. Grav propulsion uses the Flyer (Grav) skill. Mag-lev trains would not.
 
Huh. This is 5-6 Vehicle Handbook. First paragraph of the introduction:

Welcome to the Vehicle Handbook. This book replaces Supplement 5: Civilian Vehicles and Supplement 6: Military Vehicles in the Traveller range, to provide you with one core
reference to create your own vehicles and quickly access your own designs.
Ah... I guess I never got the replacement book.

And... still available as an ebook... and... now I own it and see what you see.
 
Still need to maintain tracks and right of ways. Grav-trains do not.

All of these are considered "light rail". Heavy Rail, is the 100+ cars of freight per train travelling between cities.

Why use an elevated train to go between arcologies instead of a grav-train? A grav-train can depart and enter an arcology at any level. No other train can do that. Trees or terrain in your path? No worries, you cruise over it. None of the other trains can do that.

This is only because the US is stupid and corrupt. (speaking as an American) Our infrastructure hasn't been upgraded properly in over 80 years. The last major infrastructure push in the US, Eisenhower was President.

You don't see any TL-13 worlds in Charted Space still using American-style Space Shuttles to reach orbit. Or Saturn V rockets to send passengers and cargo from planetary surface to the planet's moon. So why would its rail system be 4+ TLs behind the TL of the world? Even the outdated US rail system isn't 4+ TLs behind. It just makes no sense. These worlds were founded at TL-12 and higher. They did not have to earn their TL the way Terra had to.
Well, I suppose we can argue about what is heavy rail and what is light rail in order to try to exclude light rail from the discussion for whatever reason, but the distinction is kind of arbitrary. And the reason to have tracks is that the train stays on them better that way; there are other reasons depending, but the point is there are reasons. Flying trains could well be a thing, but they would work more like a combination of trucks and airplanes and have a slightly different use case (though overlapping)
 
Well, I suppose we can argue about what is heavy rail and what is light rail in order to try to exclude light rail from the discussion for whatever reason, but the distinction is kind of arbitrary. And the reason to have tracks is that the train stays on them better that way; there are other reasons depending, but the point is there are reasons. Flying trains could well be a thing, but they would work more like a combination of trucks and airplanes and have a slightly different use case (though overlapping)
I never included light rail in the discussion, and I am the one who started the thread. I have only ever been talking about shipping heavy freight over continental and intercontinental distances. Everyone else brought up the stupid light rail crap.
 
Why do high technology worlds have rail lines? Why pay to maintain of the infrastructure of tracks when grav-trains are a thing and have no tracks to maintain? A Grav-train is way cheaper than a traditional train track and train set up.
Same reason why we still use barges and ships today - water is the cheapest form of transport, then rail, then road, then air. Each has a role / niche to play. Most likely on higher tech worlds you won't see rail lines used for longer-range transport for people since they are the most time-sensitive cargo and they would go by grav vehicle. But if you are shipping 10,000 rail cars of grain then why bother with the expense of a grav lifter when you can transport it cheaper using rail?

You'd also likely see rail transport of people in busy and dense cities (or on stations) since it's cheap and easy to implement for mass transit. Look at cities like NY or London or other places where subways and rail transit transport massive amounts of people. Sure, having the skies is going to make for a lot more roads, but grav vehicles aren't cheap, and there is a finite amount of space available for grav cars in cities since they are still going to have lanes for safety reasons.

Today 2 guys (1 if the railroads can get their way) run trains that are nearly 3 miles long and carry 300 containers onboard. For much less energy than 300 trucks. The limits of rail is that you only go where the rails are - but if you have enough traffic then maintenance pays for the justification of investing in the infrastructure. Same goes for water shipping. Barges are the slowest method - but move so much bulk cargo that isn't time sensitive to save that kind of money.
 
$33k to 124k per mile per year. Does that sound cost efficient to you all? Maintenance costs in Traveller do not change based on TL. 1,000 miles of track costs 33-124 million a year? Where is your cost efficiency? That is only for one line who's destination cannot be changed without a massive expense of grading all of the land in between and laying the track. Are you guys crazy?

Engines? 2 to 8 million a piece. 28 million plus for a high-speed engine.

High-speed rail in California? 154 million per mile of track to build. Seriously guys?

1,000 miles of high-speed rail? 154 BILLION dollars More than a Plankwell-class Dreadnaught
The CA high-speed rail project isn't a good comparison. If you are truly curious about costs look at the available info for Union Pacific, Norfolk Southern or the other publicly-traded North American railways. They are private entities that spend billions on their infrastructure every year and are profitable.

Design a fleet of 300 grav railcars and see how much that costs. Then compare it to the ability to build rail lines that can use far cheaper rolling stock (unless you are doing mag-lev). You aren't considering dwell times for these grav cars because they will sit idle while waiting to be unloaded, or loaded or to be requested. It's much more complex than you are making it out to be.

Not saying that there will NOT be the equivalent of grav trains on higher tech worlds. But just like water there will be many instances where it will be more than sufficient to meet the local needs, ergo it will still exist.
 
If we use legacy transport infrastructure.

A lot of urban development takes place along navigable rivers, so continuing to use them as transportation routes would continue, as long as it made economic sense.

The same would apply to legacy rail routes.
 
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