Quick Rules Question: Aux Craft Deployment Restrictions

[CZuschlag]

I know that you can't move aux craft the turn you launch them from their carrier. But, what I don't know is, can they fire? If, after deployment, the Aux Craft end up within range 2 of an enemy craft, could you execute the strike or not?

I can't find where in the rules it says you can't do this or can do this. I can only barely find the rule that implies --- never states --- that you can't move. This convinces me that the rule is there, but I just haven't found it. So, I'd really appreciate a citation and location of the rule that stops this.

Having asked that, I have another question after that .... do Drakh Raiders or Scouts have any firing restrictions on the turn of launch?

I'll move this to Rulemasters if someone can't point out the previously obvious rule that I completely missed.

Thank You!

 

[Sulfurdown]

ACtA pg 17; "...In the next turn, the flight is free to act and is treated as a separate ship itself..."

For the immediate turn a flight cannot act. So just like the beginning of an ambush scenario I don't believe they get to move, fire, or dodge in the launch round.

Unfortunately SFoS states that it's section on Adv Aux Craft replaces the original and doesn't mention anything about restrictions on fighter movement or attacks so either someone respectable from Mongoose would have to give you a ruling or you can assume that SFoS only supersedes ACtA when specifically mentioning it and fighters are dead in the water until the beginning of the next turn.

[/RL]

 

[katadder]

which is the best time for attacking fighters or launched raiders then as they cant dodge

 

[CZuschlag]

Sulfurdown, Katadder --

Off I go to Rulesmasters, then?

 

[lastbesthope]

They cannot move or fire the turn they are launched, nor can they initiate a dogfight, however, they can particiapte in a dogfight initiated by an enemy flight. Matt has mentioned this at previous tourneys.

LBH

 

[CZuschlag]

And as they cannot move, the have no dodge, can be Mass Drivered, Launch Breaching Pods ... all this. Gotcha.

Moral: Never launch a Raider is any ship is going to be remotely near you.

 

[lastbesthope]

Actually Armageddon syays that Ships that cannot or have not moved during the movement phase cannot Dodge. Fighters and other aux craft are not ships, so that rule strictly does not apply to them.

LBH

 

[Chernobyl]

and they have moved - they left the launch bay!

 

[CZuschlag]

But the Drakh Raiders are still dead and targettable by such tactics, correct? Or have the left the launch bay and thereby "moved"?

 

[Ripple]

God I hate the whole 'aux craft, ships and are treated as' swamp...hope they dumped it and put in actual rules for each and stopped making vague cross references.

Ripple

 

[katadder]

well this little thing is overcome in 2e anyway cos your fighters etc are launched in the end phase meaning they cant be targeted before they move.
which makes breaching pods useful now as you can launch them as you close with the enemy. also means against e-mine people hold your fighters until they in range to attack straight away.

 

[Da Boss]

God I hate the whole 'aux craft, ships and are treated as' swamp...hope they dumped it and put in actual rules for each and stopped making vague cross references.

Ripple

Can't agree more, I would prefer actual Official Rules amendments in these cases rather than "strictly speaking the rules as written say".

have fun!

 

[Ripple]

wow...really?...you've turned aux craft into a direct fire weapon?

This was one of the big reasons BFG collapsed around here. The aux craft could not be meaningfully engaged cause smart players simply held them until they got within one movement. This made them effectively just another gun, no maneuver, no chance to intercept. Could just as easily have made them another weapon line.

Especially concerned about this with boarding pods... We've already seen a number of battles where perfectly healthy big ships have taken an 'all stop' and been boarded. Worst feeling in the game so far as the life and death of your ship are in just a few dice, and nothing you can reasonably do to improve you odds. Least when you wounded by shooting you can try for best position etc.

Any really max out the pods and try to ruin someones day yet?

Ripple

 

[CZuschlag]

Unless Breaching Pods' contact mechanic has significantly changed, this tactic is a very fast game-ender. Sounds like Ripple has a valid and very significant concern here.

Any compelling reason why the mechanic was changed? Because of the new E-mine damage capabilities? Is this the way that Carriers are being boosted?

 

[Greg Smith]

wow...really?...you've turned aux craft into a direct fire weapon?

No. No. No.

Read katadder's post more carefully. He obviously hasn't expressed himself unabiguously. They are certainly not direct fire weapons.

Fighters are less vulnerable to e-mines because they launch after the fire phase, so aren't clumped about the carrier. But the anti-fighter mechanic means ships certainly aren't at the mercy of fighters and pods launched later.

 

[Sulfurdown]

So Fighters/BPs are less vulnerable to weapons fire but it's compensated by the AntiFighter ship traits? (I'm actually glad to hear about the shift to end of phase launch, I was going to suggest that but hadn't had time to consider the implication of it's use... not that that has stopped me before.)

and they have moved - they left the launch bay!

Hehe... I like that logic. Especially considering the Raiders!

 

[katadder]

yeah sorry didnt explain it all that well. obviously you can still intercept with your own fighters and the AF trait on ships. but its does change how and when you launch fighters (I have lost a huge carrier 1st turn before it got any extra ships out before).

 

[CZuschlag]

You'll have to clarify, Greg, because I'm a bit lost.

As it currently stands (and all of this can change) breaching pods deploy their troops upon contact with the ship in question. The reason that pods stink is that it can be (fairly) easy to eliminate them -- they don't dodge, and automatically lose dogfights -- so picking them off is a no-brainer. Makes sense. You have to move, deploy them, have them survive a turn of fire, not get hit by a dogfighter, and not have their target manouver to where only a few of them can get to their victims. It's a long list; given that you have to spend ship troops to do it just makes it a bit more dubious.

Now, however, I can invalidate a couple of these effects. If I'm a initiative-winning race in a matchup --- say Centauri vs. Brakiri or some such -- I'll buy a lot of Pods. I'll run up to my Victim, engage, and then launch my Pods. Now, of the three defenses I used to have, I have far fewer:

-- I cannot engage them with weaponry as a Primary target. I never had a chance to shoot them.
-- I cannot engage them with Dogfighters, unless I get ridiculously lucky with initiative. You will move before my Aux Craft, and once you touch my base, it's all over.
-- I can still try to manouver to avoid 6" radius spheres of podness.

That last bit is REALLY REALLY hard and usually only has a shot with All Stop and All Power to Engines some of the time.

Unless the Anti-fighter mechanic is nonlocal -- you can support other fleet elements with your own AF capabilities -- any new mechanic will allow multiple ship's pods to overwhelm one ship fairly directly. You never got to engage the Pods as a fleet.

This, if I understand the situation correctly, is what I understand from you and Katadder. And if true, it is a major, MAJOR problem.

Perhaps you fixed it by making being boarded not nearly as bad as it used to be (1:3 chance per turn of the troopers dying to ship's crew instead of 1 in 6? Right now, a trooper running roughshot is worth approximately 16 dead crewmen...that's a ton!)

 

[Burger]

Launching at the end of the firing phase is a nerf to the poor old Drakh Carrier and Mothership, which are often destroyed before launching their Raiders. Now it'll be even harder to get em all out before turning into an Ann Summers fireball.

Unless they got harder, of course

 

[Da Boss]

Triggy mentioned in an ealier thread - there is a Escort Trait that allows antifighter to help other ships. Plus I presume i you have fighters on base thye have to engage?