Questions about skills over 100% & Critical Hits

kustenjaeger said:
I don't know if you remember the attempts to create RQ4 - I wasn't directly involved but did see a draft.

I had a draft copy once too - can't remember who I got it from/what I did with it.

... I dont suppose someone has a copy/pdf or something of it do they? As I'd personally like to see that systems imporved fatigue system as I recall liking it (more than first seeing MRQ's fatigue system) but dont remember it fully.
So anyone able to help? If so - mega thanks!
 
Hi James,

posted up a preliminary page at http://www.genomia.co.uk/mrqstats.html

That looks excellent - really does show up the anomalies perfectly. Initial impressions are that you do NOT want to try parrying or dodging if your skill is 100%+ and your opponent's isn't; I haven't finished looking through the "attacker at 100%+" scenarios yet, but it appears you get a MASSIVE advantage over a <100% opponent by being just above the 100% line.

It'll be interesting to see everyone else's analyses. Thanks for the great gadget James!

Cheers,

Sarah
 
sarahnewton said:
I think the issues identified so far are quite easily fixed, in fact. And without getting too "house-rulesy" about it. You could do the following without causing too much pain, and, I imagine, without breaking the MRQ system:

1.) 100%+ Halving Rule Solution 1.
Ignore it. If you have a 120% skill, you have a 12% critical chance, a 96-00 failure chance, a 00 fumble chance. This applies on all rolls, opposed or not (but see #3) below. This is a minimal impact fix, as far as I can see, and would probably work well in a campaign where you have very little 100%+ activity, with most play being under 100% skills. Let me know if you see any probs with it!
2.) 100%+ Halving Rule Solution 2.
Ignore it, and replace with the "HeroQuest" mastery solution. This means that blocks of 100% cancel one another out - a 220% attacker vs. a 160% defender is played as 120% vs 60%. Any remaining blocks of 100 are used to "bump up" the success of the roll; in that latter case, the 120% is treated as 20%, but all results are "bumped up" one notch, so a fumble becomes a fail, a fail a success, a success a critical. On a critical, you bump your opponent down one level. I'm summarising, but that's more or less the mechanic. This would probably work well in a campaign where you have a lot of 100%+ activity.

Well, I think I perhaps will use option 1 there.
Though I am considering using the Stormbringer rule of splitting % over 100 into several attacks for combat.
But considering the Action/Reaction system, this will most likely break things quickly. Unless you reduce the number of actions/reactions a character has.

sarahnewton said:
3.) Opposed Defense Rolls.
Ignore the second roll - the initial unopposed attack roll becomes the first roll in an opposed contest if the defender elects to defend. Treat the success level of the first attack roll as the one the defender has to compete against. One die roll less - and I can't see that you've lost much, if anything at all.

I agree, I can not see why this is not the way it was done in the first place.
What you loose is the "attacker failed" part of the table, which hurts the defender more than a little.
But then, I see very little that is in favor of the defender at all in MRQ. There is a serious problem with being able to defend yourself well, you will always take some damage.

sarahnewton said:
4.) Critical Hits
Make them ignore armour. This way, a critical hit to an opponent's head with a "war sword" has at least the chance of knocking him unconscious.

Well, not having it this way is just insane. That I know for a fact after having run other game with HP / Hit Location. It just break down into a D&D-esque feeling otherwise.

"What? a dagger in my eye, ah, nothing worse, I'll live"

That should be a serious injury, a dagger in the head is serious any day in our world. Obviously not in Glorantha and MRQ.

sarahnewton said:
5.) Skybolt
Jury's out on this one. If I ever play MRQ, I won't be using this spell, at least until I've seen how the rest of the game plays out, at length.

Well, if there had been a Total HP to keep track of, and it had dealt damage to just that, then it would have made sense with a really deadly 3d6 damage spell. But as you say...

sarahnewton said:
That just leaves you with the bits of MRQ which I see as being genuinely new - the Combat Actions, variable Strike Rank, and Rune Magic rules. I'm happy & willing to give all of these new rules a whirl & see how they play out!

Cheers,

Sarah

Variable initiative is something I am used to in BRP games since 1983 (swedish game; Drakar och Demoner). It is nothing new, neither are Combat actions (swedish game; Drakar och Demoner 91 - Krigarens Handbook (warriors handbook, had these rules)). I know they work well.
So in a way I am just happy that a BRP derivative (which MRQ can not be called other than that) available in the english language finally have included them.

So what I guess I am most exited about is that there finally is a BRP-derivative/Clone that is OGL! :)
 
GoingDown said:
atgxtg said:
For example, what if that pesky trollkin with club @ 40% attacks Rurik, who parries at 120%?

If the Trollkin rolls under 40% do we make an opposed 20% vs. 60% parry roll?

I was in impression that you will halve the trollkin initial attack roll as well - then it works just like is should. Is this not the case?

No, according to the information presented in eariler posts the intial attack is not consdiered opposed and so is not halved.
 
andakitty said:
*shrug* I don't see anything that needs fixing,

So you think that a character with a 150% skill having a lower chance to parry than a character with a 90% skill doesn't need fixing?


andakitty said:
and have no interest in HQ in any event.

Maybe, but MRQ is more HQ that RQ. So interested or not, looks like we are all going to get it-at least in part.


andakitty said:
Sure you are not forgetting to take some things into account, like eight other possible results on the opposed roll? Failure vs. failure, for instance? Failure vs. success? and so on?

Kitty, the eight other results and not going to change the percentages. The defender's ability to ward off damage doesn't get better by an increased chance of failure. This isn't a matter of opinion but of mathematics. I can do the math that show the either other results, and the 150% skill comes off worse than the 90% character even after factoring in the other results.


andakitty said:
I'm kind of an eyeball it and go sort. The MRQ opposed roll looks interesting and fun. I see no need to number crunch, personally. If you want to, have fun. :)

THen you need better glasses, this is a big problem mathemtically. Halving the skill when one character is over 100 and the other isn't penalizes the skilled character. IF this is applied to the entire game you are going to winp up win a game where experts (75-99%) and going to be better than masters (100%+). That is a problem, and a good reason to crunch. Iif a game is going to work the math has to hold up. With MRQ's experience system Characters are going to want to stop advanccing a parrying weapon at 95% or 99% (depends on if the 96-00 failure rule still applies).
 
Got to agree with atgxtg here, from what I've seen, the stats get considerably worse when you go over 100% in a skill...
 
Hopefully, with all the confusion over the charts and all, there is something that is errata'd or whatever that changes all this.

I find it hard to believe that they had groups playtesting this and no one noticed what happened when people broke the 100% barrier.
 
Maybe I'm wrong. I have been before.

'Eyeballing' means 'keeping things in the ballpark', not 'doing everything randomly'.

Are you sure you are doing it right? Never mind, rhetorical question. :) I don't like to argue for the sake of argument, so I yield the ground now. That doesn't mean I agree with this.
 
Try using my gadget and giving the attacker and defender 100%, then move one of them to 105% and see the stats change but always in favour of the attacker!

In fact if you have around 105% to dodge, you might as well climb on a horse and take the -30% penalty as the stats work out in your favour a lot better at 75%!

The moral of the story is... when fighting someone with 100% Dodge, cast Coordination on them! :D
 
andakitty said:
'Eyeballing' means 'keeping things in the ballpark', not 'doing everything randomly'.

Are you sure? I thought it was an expression that had about the same meaning as "winging it". Meaning that you judge things by eyesight instead of carefully measuring it. At least that is what the word commonly refers to among craftsmen.
 
bluejay said:
The moral of the story is... when fighting someone with 100% Dodge, cast Coordination on them!
I was thinking the same thing! I can just imagine two warriors meeting in battle and casting Bladesharps on each other! That is too funny.

Archer said:
andakitty said:
'Eyeballing' means 'keeping things in the ballpark', not 'doing everything randomly'.
Are you sure? I thought it was an expression that had about the same meaning as "winging it". Meaning that you judge things by eyesight instead of carefully measuring it.
This is one of those fun words that can have nearly opposite meanings.

eye·ball
n.
1. To look over carefully; scrutinize.
2. To measure or estimate roughly by sight
 
Is it possible that the playtesters didn't try 100%+ skills? I'm also wondering if this will be addressed in more detail in the Legendary Heroes book. Maybe that book changes the system sort of like the high level D&D book. If it does, let's pray that it does a better job...................
 
sarahnewton said:
1.) 100%+ Halving Rule Solution 1.
Ignore it. If you have a 120% skill, you have a 12% critical chance, a 96-00 failure chance, a 00 fumble chance. This applies on all rolls, opposed or not (but see #3) below. This is a minimal impact fix, as far as I can see, and would probably work well in a campaign where you have very little 100%+ activity, with most play being under 100% skills. Let me know if you see any probs with it!

Here's a variable I'm conscidering(until I see the final product). Following another part of Sarah's post, remove the second role based on reaction. The Attacker rolls to hit & if the Defender chooses a Parry Reaction they roll:

If the Attacker succeeds & the Defender fails, Attack deals normal damage.

If the Attacker succeeds & the Defender succeeds, look at who rolled highest(ala opposed skill checks), If its the Attacker, 1/2 AP is subracted for the Parry; If its the Defender, 2xAP is subtracted for the Parry.

If the Attacker Criticals & the Defender Fails, Attack deals Double damage.

If the Attacker Criticals & the Defender Succeeds, Attack deals Normal Damage.

If the Attacker Criticals & the Defender Criticals, If the Attacker rolled highest 1/2 AP is subtracted for the Parry; If its the Defender, 2xAP is subtracted for the Parry.

Right now, this is only useful for Parrying as a Reaction. I don't know wether there are any drawbacks to dodging yet. But this could at least create some...

Doc
 
As far as I remember, parries and dodges are interchangeable in terms of how they are used. They are both reactions.

If you carry a second weapon I guess you get a free extra parry otherwise I think they work the same in this respect. Obviously they have differences in their opposed role tables.
 
Itto said:
I read the Very High Skill Rule to be for opposed rolls.
In my attempt to clarify that attacks over 100% where not actually halved which was where the thread was kind of was going when I did my first post.

Which is correct.

I said that the subsiquent reaction contest (dodge/parry) would come under the Very High Skill Rule.
I've since changed my mind :shock:
Opposed skill like the classicic thief sneak/guard perception work on the principle that the one who roles the highest under their skill wins or in the case of both failing the one with the lowest roll wins. Criticals seem to be not realy counted.

In the case of combat which doesn't work on the same principle because it has tables to show what happens for the verious rolls.
So I now believe that I was wrong about the whole parry/dodge contest would be subject to the Very High Skill Rule.

So I clarified that attack skills where not halved, also that two attack rolles may be needed. Which is good.
But I kind of lead folks up the garden path for the parry/dodge contest. oops.

Sorry about that folks.

But the leason here is that, before going on about how stuff works/doesn't work reading the rules and having experience playing them is the important thing.
 
Dr. Halflight said:
I don't know wether there are any drawbacks to dodging yet. But this could at least create some...
In another thread someone mentioned the drawbacks to Dodge... no riposte, and there are some movement related rules whereas your position can get changed involuntarily while dodging. Also, Dodge eats valuable XP that could go into your weapon skill.
 
sarahnewton said:
Hi Rurik :D

You still got those groovy baggy trousers you wore at Gimpy's in RQ2? They were soooo cool. Way before you got mixed up in all that Yelmalio malarkey.

No offense, mate. I know you can brush trollkin off you like sandflies. Just mebbe not with these rules, is all... :twisted:

Sarah

Hey, the legend goes that Rurik was eventually killed by a trollkin. Something like "I strike the troll priestess with my spear, parry the troll warrior and ignore the trollkin"... and then getting stabbed by the trollkin and dying.

Trollkin = the bane of Rurik
 
Adept said:
Hey, the legend goes that Rurik was eventually killed by a trollkin. Something like "I strike the troll priestess with my spear, parry the troll warrior and ignore the trollkin"... and then getting stabbed by the trollkin and dying.

Trollkin = the bane of Rurik

That's not so bad. Imagine how embassing it would have been if a Light Son of Yelmalio died of Sunstroke. :oops:
 
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