Questions about Point Buy in Companion 2022

[Somebody]

I have a few questions about the point buy as shown in the 2022 version of the Compainon for Mongoose Traveller 2e:

1) How is the age of the character determined?

In systems like GURPS this is based on "points spend for skills" and in the "package based" generation for MgT you roll the age. There seems to be no such rule for point based chargen

2) How is the time in each career determined if the character does more than one career?

Again there seems to be no ruling for that

3) Do point buy characters get event roles?

My guess is no but I would like to check

4) Can point buy characters run throug pre-career packages?

Since they DO get background skills "for free" this also is not totally clear to me

=================

Note: The Point Buy system is "Lasered in Stone Tablets on a cloud shrouded mountain top" for our group, we HATE "roll of the dice" chargen so "use the chargen system x" is NOT helpfull

 

[paltrysum]

The rules do not address any of those issues, but in a recent campaign in which we used point buy, we selected skills that emulated the careers we were to have participated in, taking zero-level skills that we would have gotten from pre-career, then basic training, and then 1-level skills that we might have gotten from the various skills tables. For example, I created a female Aslan former clan agent. The skills I selected had to come from the available tables for that career. The rank I purchased gave some indication as to how long I might have been in the career.

As for pre-career options, such as university, again, I think we would have been asked to accommodate for the +2 EDU and the level 1 and 2 skills that we acquired. You're on the honor system when it comes to figuring out how old you should be. Based on the number of skills and rank I had, I determined that I had served a total of five terms.

I hope that helps. You have to sort of wing it.

 

[Condottiere]

Best use is for a more well rounded non player character generation.

 

[Somebody]

Best use is for a more well rounded non player character generation.

As said - not an option. This WILL be the character generation used. No one in the group is willing to use "dictatorship of plastic lumps" in CharGen and none has been in decades (Rule systems that force that won't get looked at)

 

[Garran]

If you don't want to use die rolls but the point buy is too ambiguous then you could simply use the package-based chargen instead. Start everyone with 7-all in stats (add racial modifiers if relevant), and any changes from there come from the packages themselves.

You probably won't have anyone with really high or really low values, but Traveller characters aren't as dependent on a high "main stat" as, say, D&D characters typically are.

 

[paltrysum]

As said - not an option. This WILL be the character generation used. No one in the group is willing to use "dictatorship of plastic lumps" in CharGen and none has been in decades (Rule systems that force that won't get looked at)

That's unfortunate in some ways, but understandable. Every group will have its preferences. The thing that's great about Traveller random chargen is that it produces the best characters for the mechanics of the game. Overly optimized characters can break the 2D6 mechanics with their enormous die rolling results.

"Hey, Bill, make a sensors check."
"Okay, I have Electronics (sensors) 3, a +1 for my INT, and another +1 for my Expert software. Boom! I rolled a 13 and I only needed an 8!"

[Note: Getting a level 3 skill with a rando is tough but easy with point buy if given the points]

I'm not saying that player characters shouldn't have high skill levels, but a team of optimized characters produces a whole lot more over-success on skill checks. Failures and retries make for fun sessions, too. YMMV

Traveller, at its heart, is also designed to tell the tale of "ordinary people" doing exceptional things. Randoms kind of makes that happen. Optimized point-buy characters might still accomplish that, but it takes the element of chance out of it. Just my $0.02.

 

[Somebody]

You are projecting your (bad) experience with players on a character generation method. The group I am with playes point buy systems exclusively since the late 1990s. And with us being all adults the "super character" has yet to make an apperance. What we DO get is the character we WANT and not "oh, the plastic lumps says you play Dumpster Dave, Master Hobo" when what you want to play a Space Marine.

 

[Vormaerin]

Look, you have your preferences. No one is disputing that or attacking them. Not sure why you have to attack the basic mechanic of the game in return. Anyway, he wasn't saying your players would be powergamers. Its just that Traveller's system is designed to create broadly skilled characters with a lot of 0, 1, 2 rank skills rather than a few 3 or 4 rank skills. Those kinds of characters can happen, but that's not how the system works best.

Its natural to make experts when using point buy. Its EXPECTED in almost all point buy games out there. Traveller characters typically aren't super experts. All he is was saying is that this natural tendency is what will cause the biggest divergence between the two methods of character creation.

 

[Somebody]

Between the "plastic lump fans" boasting their prefered system even AFTER I stated

"Note: The Point Buy system is "Lasered in Stone Tablets on a cloud shrouded mountain top" for our group, we HATE "roll of the dice" chargen"

in the starting post and

"The thing that's great about Traveller random chargen is that it produces the best characters for the mechanics of the game. Overly optimized characters can break the 2D6 mechanics"

The plastic lump fans DO ATTACK my preferences. So yes, I am miffed. Stay out of this if you do not contribute, this is NOT about a style of chargen that our group wil NEVER use because as stated in the start we HATE it.

As for your false claim

"Its natural to make experts when using point buy. Its EXPECTED in almost all point buy games out there"

The biggest point buy systems (GURPS, HERO, FUZION) do NOT encourage that. On the contrary, they even encourage a wide spread of skills IN THE RULES sets (See ie. the Template system that GURPS has since 3e)

 

[Vormaerin]

That's not an attack on your preferences. That's a statement of fact about the design of the game. Point buy is an optional rule. Like all optional rules its perfectly fine to use. But unlike GURPS, etc, the game system was not designed that way and its not a complete system. No one told you to use the standard chargen. They were pointing out in response to your questions that point buy it not a fully fleshed out system and its results don't look much like standard chargen.

I'm sorry it miffs you, but the answer to your questions are "whatever you decide, because that bit of the rules is incomplete and tacked on so you'll have to make up answers and wrestle with it to get it to look like Traveller characters." It makes no effort to link to character age or length of career. There are no event rolls. You decide that as suits your concept of the character. One of the two versions of point buy says to keep your skill purchases within what's available to a particular career or pay to change careers, but that's an attempt at balance, not an attempt to generate any backstory for your character.

They don't go through the pre career packages per se. You can buy those skills if you wish. I would personally allow a character to buy a couple university skills without charging the 5pts for career change (if you even use the career change version), but its not spelled out anywhere. So, again, you have to make up something that suits your group.

Of the alternate systems, the package selection is the best fleshed out, but that replaces the tyranny of the dice with the arbitary choices of the author, so I don't think it would be an improvement for your group. The point buy system is "decide your character's story and then spend points to reflect what you decided.". You can sort of infer age from the balance of stats and skills. More skills implies older characters. That's about it.

 

[paltrysum]

You are projecting your (bad) experience with players on a character generation method. The group I am with playes point buy systems exclusively since the late 1990s. And with us being all adults the "super character" has yet to make an apperance. What we DO get is the character we WANT and not "oh, the plastic lumps says you play Dumpster Dave, Master Hobo" when what you want to play a Space Marine.

No, not projecting. Just pointing out that part of the charm of out-of-the-box Traveller is mismatched, unequal, and in some cases underqualified characters with broad ranges of skills. With some skills they might be surprised at how much they enjoy using them. Add all that to what Vormaerin said.

Underqualification is a blessing in disguise. If you use the official or other experience point system, players usually have something to work towards. That player who envisioned themself being the hotshot pilot, but only got Pilot 1, can work towards their goal over time. Players LOVE spending experience points. Obviously, you can do that with point buy, too, but the desire will be all the more urgent.

Please don't take offense. None was intended. Just conveying the counterpoint in case you (or anyone else reading here) hadn't thought of, or at least hadn't fully processed why Traveller uses random chargen as its default. But hey, if the game designers really didn't want point buy to exist, they wouldn't have presented a version of it in the Traveller Companion, right? I hope you and your players enjoy the game.

 

[Somebody]

Guess that means MgT 2e is not the right system for us. Okay, back to GT, had hopes we could skip the "convert the ships/gear" and "use non metric system" steps

 

[Vormaerin]

Sorry I don't have better news for you. But the point buy system just exists to let you take a pre-determined concept and turn it into something playable. It doesn't help in any way with generating that concept or fine tuning it. The 250 pt allowance gives a result that approximates an early 30s standard generation character, though without certain results like ships and ship shares. So if you are trying to make a 45 yr old retired Marine Colonel, you are going to be underpowered compared to your concept (and the results of normal chargen) while if you want to make a 22 yr old recent University graduate, you are going to be much better off than basic chargen would produce.

It has some pretty serious flaws, like charging serious points for character ranks that don't actually *do* anything unless your campaign is designed to make being a ex-Marine officer matter in play compared to being a former enlisted Marine. It doesn't answer important questions like how to point buy a psionic character.

Mongoose makes a lot of cool products for Traveller. But, imho, their point buy system is not one of them. And not just because I have a 40 year love of the basic chargen. GURPS or HERO Traveller just do the point buy dramatically better.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Why not just let them roll characters but always succeed at every dice roll and pick what they want from the tables you would normally roll randomly on? Or let them roll with advantage for every roll during character generation and pick from the random tables.

 

[Somebody]

Why not just let them roll characters but always succeed at every dice roll and pick what they want from the tables you would normally roll randomly on? Or let them roll with advantage for every roll during character generation and pick from the random tables.

If I start heavily modifying the character generation and testing the mods - I could simply use the same time to convert needed ships etc. to GURPS and use that. The hope was that the 2e point buy would work "Out of the Box" so that effort would not be needed for a short Traveller scenario / mini campaign. As soon a effort is needed I am better of using the well known and liked GURPS rules

 

[Sigtrygg]

Why not just get the GURPS Traveller books? Go to the FFE website and you can get the lot in 2 cds. 3 if you want the GURPS JTAS too.

 

[Somebody]

Why not just get the GURPS Traveller books? Go to the FFE website and you can get the lot in 2 cds. 3 if you want the GURPS JTAS too.

To quote myself:

"Okay, back to GT, had hopes we could skip the "convert the ships/gear" and "use non metric system" steps"

There was a hope not to have the Conversion efforts. Did not work so some money was wasted on MgT 2e rules

 

[Arkathan]

Wouldn't it be simpler to use the GURPS chargen you like and convert the names of a few skills than to convert everything else for a process that takes (at most) a couple of hours on your first session?
Kind of throwing the baby out with the bath water, wouldn't you say?
Much easier to convert skills.

 

[Somebody]

Wouldn't it be simpler to use the GURPS chargen you like and convert the names of a few skills than to convert everything else for a process that takes (at most) a couple of hours on your first session?
Kind of throwing the baby out with the bath water, wouldn't you say?
Much easier to convert skills.

GURPS has a totally different set of attributes and skills. So no, the conversion is NOT simple

4 Attributes, Skill levels up to 18 and based on the attribute as well as a difficulty to learn the skill. 3W6 based system without different difficulty levels, no attribute based DM (attribute are used to determin skill costs)

 

[paltrysum]

Point buy mostly works. It just might require a little tweaking to get the balance desired. As I mentioned, I'm in point-buy-based campaign right now and it seems fine. I would prefer random, but my ref has similar feelings about random vs. point buy that #Somebody does.