Questions about Laboratory Ships.

[Marikir]

I'm about to start my first Traveller game. During character gen of the first 2 (of 3) PCs, one of them rolled up shares in a Laboratory Ship, 5 of them. They'd like to stick with this, but...take said ship and mod it to a Trader as that's the type of game we're going for.

My plan is to draw up a few "bargain" ships for them to choose from (so I can learn the system) and then if they don't like those, go through ship gen with them so that they get an idea of what the system is like.

My question is...what constitutes a Laboratory ship in people's opinion?

I'm trying to think up some "Qualifiers" like 1/4 of all tonnage must be "Lab" space and other such ideas.

Any other suggestions for requirements to be a "laboratory ship"?

 

[AndrewW]

If they really want a trade you could trade 5 laboratory ship shares for 2 ships shares towards the use of a trader. Alternately maybe take a laboratory ship and convert it after they have gotten it (like sell off the pinnace to create more cargo space). Ship shares are meant for the specific ship (for 5) as specified.

 

[dayriff]

My plan is to draw up a few "bargain" ships for them to choose from (so I can learn the system) and then if they don't like those, go through ship gen with them so that they get an idea of what the system is like.

My question is...what constitutes a Laboratory ship in people's opinion?

I'm trying to think up some "Qualifiers" like 1/4 of all tonnage must be "Lab" space and other such ideas.

Any other suggestions for requirements to be a "laboratory ship"?

Let's say that lab space sufficient for one person to work requires an area approximately the size of a stateroom. Four tons. On a "lab ship", at least 1/2 of the occupants should be dedicated to research. Therefore lab space should equal half the space allocated to staterooms.

Sound good?

 

[GypsyComet]

Obligatory Caveat: As the Ref, do what you like.

To qualify as a "Lab" ship, I'd say the ship must have a few dedicated components for research. The specific components will depend on what is being researched.

An exo-bio field research vessel is probably going to look a lot like a Safari Ship. Slap a "Mutual of Omaha" logo on the side and you're good.

An Engineering Field Test Bench ship will have dedicated shop space for Mechanical and Electronic work, and a bigger than average computer.

An Astrographics and Survey ship will have a huge holo-display, better sensors, and possibly a subcraft or two to provide longer baselines for remote sensing.

A "chem lab in space" will have dedicated lab spaces for wet chem, a mechanical shop space (for hot work and implement repair), and highly segmented cargo spaces.

A hospital ship will have a bio lab space with isolation (ie. bulkhead separation), at least one sick bay, and lots of small (2 ton instead of 4) staterooms and cold berths.

That shape your thinking any?

 

[Marikir]

If they really want a trade you could trade 5 laboratory ship shares for 2 ships shares towards the use of a trader. Alternately maybe take a laboratory ship and convert it after they have gotten it (like sell off the pinnace to create more cargo space). Ship shares are meant for the specific ship (for 5) as specified.

Oh, they know about the trade 5 for 2 thing...they just don't want to.

And frankly, considering the guy who got them got it during his stint as a Physician, I'm fine with them keeping the shares as Lab ship shares. I just know they'll want to gut it and change it. The problem was they didn't like the lab ship presented in the rules due to it being a little too big.

So, in order to help them out, I'm trying to come up with what consitutes a Lab ship. That will provide a baseline to start at. I'm just looking for ideas about what makes a ship a Lab ship.

 

[AndrewW]

Oh, they know about the trade 5 for 2 thing...they just don't want to.

Of course not they want to have their cake and eat it too... Trouble is cut down the size of a laboratory ship to say 200 tons you aren't going to have nearly the cargo capacity of say a 200 ton free trader so it's still not going to be that great as a cargo hauler compared to what they could put 2 ships shares worth towards.

 

[kristof65]

There is no reason that a 'lab ship' couldn't be a Free Trader that's had it's entire hold turned over to other purposes - like extra staterooms and laboratory space. If it was a Physician's ship, I'd be inclined to say it's become a mobile hospital, and the entire cargo bay is now things like operating rooms, patient recovery rooms, etc.

If the conversion to a lab ship involved things like welding the main cargo doors shut, converting it back to a free trader could get rather expensive. Actually, I think that's what I would do - have one of the two cargo doors welded shut, and the other converted to a vehicle bay for an "ambulance". They could gut the entire cargo bay (or not, the Doctor might be attached to his high tech operatiing room), but "lose" their vehicle bay and only have one cargo door or pay lots of money to have the other one converted back to a regular door.

If they choose not to, occasionally have situations where the fact that it's not "standard" anymore cause them grief and annoyance - like some union dockhand refusing to load the vessel because they have to drive "around" the ship - stuff like that.

 

[Marikir]

Oh, I plan on inflicting some stuff on them. It's what they want and I'm not going to shoot that down right at the start of the game.

I figure that they'll pick a ship and then have to spend money/credits/mortgage towards converting it. Which I will enforce. They'll basically have to buy it "wrong" then pay to have it converted. It'll raise the cost, but it's what they want so they'll get that.

I'm just trying to figure out what it is that makes a ship a Lab Ship. What qualifications does a ship have to fulfill before being designated a lab ship in your Traveller game(s)?

I like the idea of linking the required lab space to the amount of staterooms. Also, the ideas concerning different classes of lab ships seem to be worth plumbing, so I might pull from that too.

 

[GypsyComet]

If the conversion to a lab ship involved things like welding the main cargo doors shut, converting it back to a free trader could get rather expensive. Actually, I think that's what I would do - have one of the two cargo doors welded shut, and the other converted to a vehicle bay for an "ambulance". They could gut the entire cargo bay (or not, the Doctor might be attached to his high tech operatiing room), but "lose" their vehicle bay and only have one cargo door or pay lots of money to have the other one converted back to a regular door.

A converted-then-half-converted-back ship featured in the last game I ran, much to the annoyance and amusement of my players.

The thing with a ship like that is that, by definition, it isn't new. Let the group have some sort of odd hybrid, but tack a couple more rolls on the Used Ship chart onto whatever they decide on, just for good measure.

 

[lurker]

what constitutes a Laboratory ship in people's opinion?

One method of determining it would be to decide if said ship is 'registered' as a lab ship. Consider a SUV. It usually starts out with a truck frame and drive train but the rest is customized for passenger and cargo space. In some states a SUV is classified as a truck, is registered as such, and requires a different license plate than a car. A minivan however, is usually based on a car frame and drive train and is often registered as a car. Emissions and other requirements are different (or at least used to be in the US) for a SUV (truck) and a mini van (car).

Think of how a world might treat a ship registered as a lab ship. Maybe the customs officers of some worlds would not allow you to unload cargo? Maybe a Lab ship has some advantages like a temporary + Soc standing when interacting with officials?

Should characters with Lab ship shares be able to use them on a Yacht that was later customized for use as a 'lab' ship? What if one character has Lab ship shares and another has Yacht ship shares- who gets to use the full shares and who converts their 5 specialty shares to 2 any-type ship shares?

Keep in mind that major conversions should be quite complex. The structural supports were designed for a specific purpose. Cutting a huge bay door in the side may be impractical. Removing bulkheads may put extra stress on the structure remaining.

what constitutes a Laboratory ship in people's opinion?
I'm trying to think up some "Qualifiers" like 1/4 of all tonnage must be "Lab" space and other such ideas.

I do like where this is coming from but it is certainly possible that a certain class of lab ship has a much lower ratio because it is designed for action around remote worlds and needs more jump capability and large fuel supplies for extended studies.

How about no space designated for 'passengers'

Perhaps a minimum lab per scientist ratio. Non 'flight' crew should mostly be scientists. Something like 5t Lab space per scientist?

Perhaps a limit on general cargo space to Cargo Space = Staterooms x Maximum number of weeks of operation [based on Fuel]?

Another thought I have is that this is a Jump capable lab ship. Some possible types of lab ships were given. Some sound more suited as orbital stations and have little need for jump capability. For short term work they may be a portable lab module that is dropped off and picked up?

 

[Zowy]

It is simple, just make it a Subsidized Medical Mission ship. Instead of paying 50% the ships gross receipts to the subsidizeing government. It has 50% of it's cargo space set up as a high tec mobile hospital. Cryoberths, TL14 Autodocs, ect.

The leftover cargo space is for the owners/crew to make money with.

 

[Patron Zero]

Far from being a canon supported suggestion, I offer my two cents all the same.

Depending on the level of 'charity' you may choose to extend players in your TU, I have classified an converted-refit 100 ton Scout/Courier as a Lab Ship in my game. Said vessel had an extensive science-medical lab section as well as an upgraded airlock that could operate as a decontamination chamber when so needed.

The Scout/Courier also had the aft section reworked to offer a large EVA support bay, the mentioned airlock sandwiched between that compartment and the science-medical bay for obvious reasons.

At first glance my players thought labeling such a Lab Ship was a stretch of imagination and some license on my part but a few adventures with said vessel as base and conveyance did prove it's value as a starfaring compact Swiss Army knife of a sort.

 

[rust]

In Traveller New Era almost every one of the standard ship types can
be converted into a lab ship, from the scout up to the subsidized mer-
chant. Therefore in my opinion "lab ship" is not a class or type of ship
but an information about the tasks the ship was outfitted to handle.

As mentioned by others, it could be a mobile hospital, a research lab
for a variety of sciences (biology, xenology ...), perhaps even a mo-
bile medical school designed to teach the newest medical techniques
to doctors on remote frontier colony planets.

In any case, it would most probably have little cargo space, with al-
most all space used for the specialized equipment for its task, from
operating rooms to holographic simulation suites.

You could, for example, take a look at the article on medics in Travel-
ler in Signs & Portents 63 and 64 to get an idea what a medical lab
ship might look like.

 

[Meriba]

Well, since it is related to this I post it here. Sorry for my english

I don't understand the laboratory ship map from Traveller core (pag. 122). Which deck go first and in what position (inside or outside)? Is there only a drive deck? And the deck's graphic is not clear at all. Also, I don't understand the ring connection for the 50-ton cutter.

Thanks for your help.

PS: I know that it is a megatraveller version much more clear, but I'm interested in mongoose version.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

It is kind of an eyeball bender. I don't understand it either.

 

[phavoc]

What makes any ship a "lab" ship is it's mission. So you could take the stock ships and modify them, or come up with an entirely different design yourself and call it a "lab" ship.

Since your PC was a physician, the ship he gets need to be medically-themed. So it could be a ship that was sent out to planets that had medical emergencies. Think a 400 ton ship with a couple of launches (as ambulances or transports), a medical ward for patients to recover in, treatment room(s) for diagnostics, at least one surgical suite, then storage for plenty of medical supplies. And of course room for the doctors and crew.

Alternatively the ship has far less medical space and is outfitted specifically for testing and research. Drop the wards and install labs, animal testing areas, animal storage, perhaps even some specialized test rooms that can be ejected from the ship in the case of a virus getting loose.

The ship would probably be no more than jump-2, and either a 1G or 2G. There wouldn't be any armament and only basic sensors. The computer MIGHT be upgraded, but really you would have more specialized systems dealing with medical things than running them through the ships main computer (who's primary function would be ship operations). Perhaps you could install a Model-1 or 2 for the ship, and a Model-5 for the medical, though that might be overkill.

There isn't any hard or fast rule. It would cost more than a handful of credits to gut the ship and put in external cargo hatches to carry cargo, not to mention the waste associated with disposing of such useful and expensive gear. Maybe the players would be better off selling the ship and taking the money and investing in a ship that is better suited, not to mention would cost less to maintain.

 

[CosmicGamer]

I'm just trying to figure out what it is that makes a ship a Lab Ship. What qualifications does a ship have to fulfill before being designated a lab ship in your Traveller game(s)?

For me, to be a "lab" ship it would have to be more lab than anything else. No, not specifically more lab space. It should be obvious as to what the ships purpose is.

Should be more scientists than crew. Otherwise it is a miss purposed ship designed. That few scientists could easily manage with a smaller ship and crew.
Not a combat ship with more weapon systems than labs.
Not a passenger ship with more passenger staterooms than science crew staterooms.
Not a merchant ship with extra cargo space beyond what is needed for it's own operations. Spare cargo space is wasted space that could be better utilized on a lab ship.
And so on.

Oh, and advanced sensors are probably standard on lab ships.

A ship designed as a lab ship could be a real pain. Removing a bunch of interior bulkheads and cutting large hanger doors may not be structurally viable if a ship was not originally designed for such.

 

[dragoner]

Since your PC was a physician, the ship he gets need to be medically-themed. So it could be a ship that was sent out to planets that had medical emergencies. Think a 400 ton ship with a couple of launches (as ambulances or transports), a medical ward for patients to recover in, treatment room(s) for diagnostics, at least one surgical suite, then storage for plenty of medical supplies. And of course room for the doctors and crew.

One word: Kurgulash. I'm actually thinking of doing that soon.

 

[Reynard]

CosmicGamer is in the ballpark, a purpose designed lab ship should have it's core around space dedicated to lab space and probably sensors. Notice the iconic laboratory ship has generic 'laboratory space' tailored to the campaign situation. Crew space will be ship crew plus the scientists and technicians assigned to the ship. The rest of the ship is what is necessary to achieve its mission statement. I notice High Guard does have a Laboratory component at 4 tons a unit and usable by one scientist. Not sure why it's TL 12 unless you can use the Technology rules to reduce or raise the TL at a cost. This means, depending what you're researching, you could have a mere four tons of lab. Maybe you have the typical old geezer scientist and his daughter traveling in search of some particular discovery in his personal 'lab ship'. On that note, any ship from a safari ship to a freighter or a decommissioned Mercenary Cruiser could have space converted.

Remember many scout ships are very close to being lab ships when tasked with Exploration and Survey missions. Even the 100ton scout is highly convertible and can become a specialized lab ship by converting 1, 2 or 3 staterooms and they already carry probe drones.

Be creative with your campaign. A ship designation does not set a ship design in stone. Paying for the conversions might. In the Pirates of Drinax campaign I'm in, we plan, someday, to rip out and sell a coupe/few lowberths and convert the space to a medical section.

 

[phavoc]

This is probably much larger of a lab ship than you had in mind (7,000 Dtons), but since we were discussing more about what a lab ship might be configured like, I thought this might be helpful.

I didn't design it with the normal min/max idea in mind. I specifically set aside tonnage for things like recreation areas, mess halls, meeting rooms, mechanical and electrical workshops, etc. Basically you know ships are going to have these sort of things once you start getting above the smaller scale that a set of PC's might be running. There aren't any hard and fast rules as far as that goes, so I tried to be reasonable in size, costs and the associated other crewmembers that would have duties (like laundry, and food prep, admin work, etc).

The primary reason it's so detailed is that it's supposed to serve as one of the locations for PC's to adventure in. There was some sort of garbled message about zahmbies or something, so who else but fresh meat, err, adventurers would jump at the chance of finding out just what happened aboard the ship? Full deckplans are sadly, a work in progress.

I can't say that there aren't any errors here, but it's should be close enough for discussion sake.

Keith Stone Lab Ship (“It’s Real Smooth”)

Specifications:
TL-14, MCr 3337.5
Displacement – 7000 tons (dispersed)
Engineering – Jump 2, 2G
Fuel – 1400 Dtons Jump, 739 Dtons PP (16 weeks ops), 370 Dtons small craft.
Computer – Model 4 * 2 (Ship), Model 8 * 2 (Research)
Hangars – 400 ton hangar, 100 ton Secondary hangar, 180 tons Cutter module storage, 4 20 ton launch bays for launches
Cargo – 350 tons in cargo bays

Labs – 2 400 ton ring labs (fore and aft), 4 50 ton labs amidships
Ring Lab (fore, aft) (800 tons)
Secure labs (amidships) * 4 (200 tons)
Lab animal storage (30 tons)
Security Area (20 tons)
Secure lab storage * 3 (60 tons)

Quarters – 172 Staterooms

Weapons – 20 hard points
8 x 3 Sandcasters
8 x 3 beam lasers
4 x 1 particle beams
800 sandcaster barrels

Miscellaneous Systems
Auxiliary Bridge (40 tons)
Primary Fire Control (24 tons)
Auxiliary Fire Control (24 tons)
Advanced Sensors
Galley (40 tons)
Crew Mess (20 tons)
Officer Mess (20 tons)
Food storage (60 tons)
Crew rec room (30 tons)
Officer rec room (20 tons)
Gym (20 tons)
Medical Bay (80 tons)
Low Berths * 8 (8 tons)
Large Briefing Room * 2 (48 tons)
Small Briefing Room * 6 (48 tons)
Ships Theatre (80 tons)
Armory (12 tons)
Brig (8 tons)
Data Vault * 2 (24 tons)
Engineering Workshop (20 tons)
Engineering storage (40 tons)
Mechanical Workshop * 2 (20 tons)
Mechanical storage * 2 (12 tons)
Ships Stores (18 tons)
Repair Drones (70 tons)
External docking clamps * 2 (20 tons)

Small Craft
Shuttle x 1
Modular Cutter x 3
20ton Launch x 4
Maintenance Pod x 2

Cutter Modules
Cargo x 3
Refueling x 3
Passenger x 3

Crew
Science – 89
Medical – 12
Flight – 33
Gunnery – 12
Ships Support – 28
Command – 20
Engineering – 13
Security – 14

Description – The Keith Stone is owned by Telman Pharmaceuticals, a ‘boutique’ drug company located in the Spinward Marches. Their primary focus is high-end anagathics and as such they are extremely security conscious. As a result they have commissioned the Keith Stone as a mobile laboratory to minimize rivals and other industrial spies being able to obtain access to their product line. The company owner, Amanda Telman, is known for being a ruthless business person, and its rumored that Telman Pharmaceuticals is more than willing to bend a few rules (i.e. laws) in pursuit of profits. Their anagathics are highly desired among the rich and nobility and they command a high price.

The Keith Stone typically cruises in the outer orbit of a system, sending in its smaller craft when necessary, and rarely stays in one system more than a month at a time to minimize the possibility of rivals discovering her. This means the crew spends months onboard with no shore leave. Because of this (and because they like to keep the scientists happy and pampered) the ship carries a wide range of crew entertainment, and is generous with cabin space.

Personnel
Science Team 89 total crew
Science Leader * 1
Team Leader * 6
Scientist * 40
Lab Assistant * 40
Administrators * 2
2 Guest single cabins reserved
70 total staterooms

Medical Team 12 total crew
Medical Leader * 1
Doctor * 2
Nurse * 4
Medic * 4
Admin *1
10 total staterooms

Flight Operations 33 total crew
Flight Leader * 1
Asst Flight Leader * 1
Shuttle crew * 3
Pinnace crew * 6
Launch crew * 8
Flight Engineers * 6
Deck crew * 6
Admin * 2
26 total staterooms

Gunnery 12 total crew
Gunnery Commander * 1
Asst Gunnery Comd * 1
Gunner * 10
7 total staterooms

Command 20 total crew
Ship’s Captain * 1
Executive Officer * 1
Chief Navigator * 1
Navigator * 3
Chief Pilot * 1
Pilot * 3
Chief Computer * 1
Computer Tech * 4
Comm Officer * 1
Comm Tech * 4
16 total staterooms

Engineering 18 total crew
Chief Engineer * 1
Assistant Engineer * 3
Engineer * 6
Ships Maint Tech * 4
Ships Elect Tech * 4
11 total staterooms

Security 14 total crew
Security Chief * 1
Asst Security * 1
Security * 12
8 total staterooms

Ships Support 28 total crew
Department Head * 1
Food Services * 15
Laundry, Cleaning and General labor * 12
15 total staterooms

Guest Staterooms * 9