Workshops

[MasterGwydion]

Has anyone read over the rules for a Robotics Laboratory and then wondered why a Robotics Lab could have a Fabricator, but a workshop could not have one? It seems to Me to be more useful for a workshop to have a Fabricator. Lots of ships have workshops. Lots of ships need spare parts when they are out on the frontier, yet none have a Fabricator. I think We need to rewrite the Fabricator to make it clearer to people that they can put a Fabricator in the workshop, same as for a Robotics Lab. If it wasn't for the write up of the Robotics Lab showing Me that I do not need to use extra ship space for a Fabricator if it is inside of a Robotics Lab. That same should apply to a workshop as well. What do you guys think?

 

[Nelphine]

Workshops are crazy cheap. I'd think you'd need to at least add the cost of the fabricator. I don't use robot handbook enough to guess why fabricator doesn't take up tonnage there, so I can be convinced it wouldn't take up tonnage in a workshop. But cost definitely needs to be accounted for

 

[MasterGwydion]

Workshops are crazy cheap. I'd think you'd need to at least add the cost of the fabricator. I don't use robot handbook enough to guess why fabricator doesn't take up tonnage there, so I can be convinced it wouldn't take up tonnage in a workshop. But cost definitely needs to be accounted for

Oh yeah! If you add one to a Robotics Lab it costs more money too, so I would think it would be the same way for Workshops, just possibly with smaller Fabricators as you are not trying to Fabricate people-sized objects.

 

[Geir]

I just assume there is a small fabricator in the workshop, right next to the socket wrenches (Sorry, metric only. Even what version of fathoms and drams the Vilani used is also consigned to the cubit-sized dust bin.)
I also assume there is a microwave oven and a fridge in the common area.

 

[AndrewW]

I always intended for the Workshop to have something. The description even mentions fabricate.

A workshop can be used to repair broken equipment
and fabricate new items, and is a common feature on
scouts and other ships that operate in the wilderness
areas of space.

 

[Sigtrygg]

In the Third Imperium they are called makers.

Ever since reading and playtesting the draft T5 rules we assumed the makers were actual fabrication machines.
We assumed every ship engineering section would have a maker.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I just assume there is a small fabricator in the workshop, right next to the socket wrenches (Sorry, metric only. Even what version of fathoms and drams the Vilani used is also consigned to the cubit-sized dust bin.)
I also assume there is a microwave oven and a fridge in the common area.

If this is so, then shouldn't We know what size and TL the Fabricator is? What is the "default" Fabricator for the Workshop as it is priced now?

 

[Terry Mixon]

If this is so, then shouldn't We know what size and TL the Fabricator is? What is the "default" Fabricator for the Workshop as it is priced now?

And can it make decent coffee?

 

[chipla]

If this is so, then shouldn't We know what size and TL the Fabricator is? What is the "default" Fabricator for the Workshop as it is priced now?

I’d suggest the TL is the same as the ship and would be reasonably sized in relation to the total size of the workshop.

I.e. A basic sized workshop has something the size of a large-ish home 3D printer (I don’t know what size that would be but my heart says 30L volume?). If you buy a bunch of workshops and put them together to make a larger working space you get bigger makers - all the way up to full on industrial CNC style stuff at the upper end.

To be honest I always assumed that most ships (especially warships) would have basic part fabrication capability. IMTU I tend to include ammunition in that production capacity and assume that players can fab small quantities on a non-industrial scale (the ammo cost is the cost for the feedstock etc)

 

[MasterGwydion]

I’d suggest the TL is the same as the ship and would be reasonably sized in relation to the total size of the workshop.

Yeah, but a workshop is 6 tons and cost 900,000C. A 30cl TL-12 Fabrication Chamber costs an additional 200,000Cr. If your ship is TL-13, that same size unit costs 1MCr, more than the price of the whole workshop. That is why I say that it should be specified. That way the prices match up and you can upgrade or downgrade the Fabricator.

I.e. A basic sized workshop has something the size of a large-ish home 3D printer (I don’t know what size that would be but my heart says 30L volume?). If you buy a bunch of workshops and put them together to make a larger working space you get bigger makers - all the way up to full on industrial CNC style stuff at the upper end.

To be honest I always assumed that most ships (especially warships) would have basic part fabrication capability. IMTU I tend to include ammunition in that production capacity and assume that players can fab small quantities on a non-industrial scale (the ammo cost is the cost for the feedstock etc)

 

[Geir]

If this is so, then shouldn't We know what size and TL the Fabricator is? What is the "default" Fabricator for the Workshop as it is priced now?

Don't know. What I do know is that a workshop costs an extra Cr50000 per ton compared to common area, so I would assume a workshop contains 6 x 50000 or Cr300000 worth of tools that are better than the fridge and microwave in the common area.

If it's the sort of campaign where you want to know exactly what's in the ship's locker down to the last rifle magazine, then you can have your players spec out the toolkits and equipment in the workshops, but then you have to tell them "Nope, sorry, not on the list" when they go looking for that iris value opener.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Don't know. What I do know is that a workshop costs an extra Cr50000 per ton compared to common area, so I would assume a workshop contains 6 x 50000 or Cr300000 worth of tools that are better than the fridge and microwave in the common area.

Workshops are assumed to have toolkits, the same way the ship's locker is expected to have Vacc Suits. Since the prices don't match up with having high-end fabricators, I would say that the chances of a workshop having a fabricator is about the same as a ship's locker having Battle Dress.

If it's the sort of campaign where you want to know exactly what's in the ship's locker down to the last rifle magazine, then you can have your players spec out the toolkits and equipment in the workshops, but then you have to tell them "Nope, sorry, not on the list" when they go looking for that iris value opener.

I treat the Ship's Locker like a kitchen junk drawer. It has a bunch a random stuff in it that usually includes these items, whatever "these items" happen to be in your campaign, but if you use crap from your junk drawer, say the Vacc Suits, and do not put them back, as a Referee, I would say that the ship's locker was out of Vacc Suits. Other than that, yeah, I kind of treat the ship's locker like a portable hole. lol

Now, I only treat the ship's locker like this. Everything else is, "if it is not written down, it doesn't exist". Same way people say, if there are no pics or vids, then it didn't happen. lol

P.S.- Isn't an Iris Valve Opener actually listed on what is included in a workshop? Or was that in the ship's locker bit? I don't remember.

 

[Arkathan]

I don't mind abstracting it.
Your ability to fabricate repair parts is dependent on your skill level and the time you take doing it. If your roll succeeds, then you were able to fabricate the spare part, or in the case of a critical success, locate and plug in the loose connector.
I use ship's parts as the repair stock. We already have a situation where that 1 ton of parts can be used on ANY system in the ship. I go with the critical hit rules for any repairs. Fail and you used a ton of parts and still didn't fix the problem. Succeed with an 8, use a ton. Reduce the amount used proportionally to effect, so that on a critical success, they beat the hull plate back into place or reconnected a loose fitting/plug. Maybe a subsystem part had debris across a connector and removing it to diagnose the fault cleared the short/ground.
As long as the players reduce their cargo capacity by carrying ship's parts, they know they can do emergency repairs.

New stuff? Buy a dedicated fabricator. I consider the workshop/engineering "fabricator" to be non-programmable. It comes with the instructions and specs for the ship's parts. A separate fabricator, you can get creative with, and doesn't any the chief engineer, who is trying to reprint a worn circuit board.

It works for the level of detail MY group wants to deal with - JUST annoying enough to have to bother with it for a couple or five rolls. YMMV.

 

[Geir]

P.S.- Isn't an Iris Valve Opener actually listed on what is included in a workshop? Or was that in the ship's locker bit? I don't remember.

It isn't, and that was my point.

 

[Condottiere]

Like taxes, you only start itemizing when the parts are worth more to you than the whole.

 

[MasterGwydion]

It isn't, and that was my point.

pg 124 of the SOM says that it is part of the Engineering Section, so it is not even in the workshop or the ship's locker. It is in Engineering. lol My only thought on that is, isn't the workshop part of the Engineering Section? It sure isn't part of the galley...lol...

 

[Arkathan]

P.S.- Isn't an Iris Valve Opener actually listed on what is included in a workshop? Or was that in the ship's locker bit? I don't remember.

WORKSHOP
A workshop can be used to repair broken equipment
and fabricate new items, and is a common feature on
scouts and other ships that operate in the wilderness
areas of space.

HG doesn't say the workshop has it. I remember SOMEPLACE talking about one, because I kept asking the player if he remembered to get the opener when they boarded unpowered ships... and he had to either go back to his ship or send an NPC/robot to fetch it. Every. Time.
They keep theirs in engineering, but the ship operations manual hints that there is a panel by each iris valve that has one, typically under the intercom.
That sounds like a security risk to me, although it might make sense in non-security sensitive civilian/passenger areas.

 

[MasterGwydion]

WORKSHOP
A workshop can be used to repair broken equipment
and fabricate new items, and is a common feature on
scouts and other ships that operate in the wilderness
areas of space.

HG doesn't say the workshop has it. I remember SOMEPLACE talking about one, because I kept asking the player if he remembered to get the opener when they boarded unpowered ships... and he had to either go back to his ship or send an NPC/robot to fetch it. Every. Time.
They keep theirs in engineering, but the ship operations manual hints that there is a panel by each iris valve that has one, typically under the intercom.
That sounds like a security risk to me, although it might make sense in non-security sensitive civilian/passenger areas.

I missed the part about them being near each iris valve. I would totally be the player who kept forgetting the iris valve opener...lol..

 

[Arkathan]

My only thought on that is, isn't the workshop part of the Engineering Section? It sure isn't part of the galley...lol...

Maintenance would fall under the Engineering Officer, but if you've ever been on a military vessel, you know that workshops are shoehorned where ever they can be fit into. Occasionally, even into areas that were not meant for habitation. Some spaces were like big Jeffries tubes, whose only purpose was to facilitate access to piping runs and ventilation. The units charged with cleaning those spaces frequently turned them into office space, storage or non-toxic mini-shops. These spaces lack sufficient ventilation for long term occupancy, but they get used until some inspector happens upon them and realizes that it isn't supposed to be used that way.

 

[Arkathan]

I missed the part about them being near each iris valve. I would totally be the player who kept forgetting the iris valve opener...lol..

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