Question on characteristics rolling

[Tom Kalbfus]

Role-playing a Khan character is boring. Role-playing a Chekhov character is more interesting.

Is it? What about characters with greater abilities simply being presented with greater challenges? Seems like there is plenty in the Traveller Universe that would sufficiently challenge even a supercharacter. What if for instance your character was an android with superhuman strength, lightning fast dexterity, incredible endurance because of the material it was made out of, it has a computer for a mind giving it high intelligence, has access to library files giving it a high Education, and has the personality programs to imitate a person of high social standing, in fact if he changes his outer covering, he could impersonate a noble and enjoy his high social standing for as long as the ruse holds up.

 

[Anonymous]

Role-playing a Khan character is boring. Role-playing a Chekhov character is more interesting.

Is it? What about characters with greater abilities simply being presented with greater challenges? Seems like there is plenty in the Traveller Universe that would sufficiently challenge even a supercharacter. What if for instance your character was an android with superhuman strength, lightning fast dexterity, incredible endurance because of the material it was made out of, it has a computer for a mind giving it high intelligence, has access to library files giving it a high Education, and has the personality programs to imitate a person of high social standing, in fact if he changes his outer covering, he could impersonate a noble and enjoy his high social standing for as long as the ruse holds up.

It's a matter of taste but all you're really doing is changing the scale. Tasks become more difficult, enemies become bigger and better armed. It doesn't change much at all.

Sometimes it's more work for the GM, sometimes not.

Personally, playing a superhero has zero attraction for me which is why I like Traveller over the majority of other RPGs. It's munchkin/power gamer nonsense to me.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Role-playing a Khan character is boring. Role-playing a Chekhov character is more interesting.

Is it? What about characters with greater abilities simply being presented with greater challenges? Seems like there is plenty in the Traveller Universe that would sufficiently challenge even a supercharacter. What if for instance your character was an android with superhuman strength, lightning fast dexterity, incredible endurance because of the material it was made out of, it has a computer for a mind giving it high intelligence, has access to library files giving it a high Education, and has the personality programs to imitate a person of high social standing, in fact if he changes his outer covering, he could impersonate a noble and enjoy his high social standing for as long as the ruse holds up.

That would be a supers game is all. You neglected to mention role-playing. So your character is even more boring.

 

[Nerhesi]

Role-playing a Khan character is boring. Role-playing a Chekhov character is more interesting.

Is it? What about characters with greater abilities simply being presented with greater challenges? Seems like there is plenty in the Traveller Universe that would sufficiently challenge even a supercharacter. What if for instance your character was an android with superhuman strength, lightning fast dexterity, incredible endurance because of the material it was made out of, it has a computer for a mind giving it high intelligence, has access to library files giving it a high Education, and has the personality programs to imitate a person of high social standing, in fact if he changes his outer covering, he could impersonate a noble and enjoy his high social standing for as long as the ruse holds up.

That would be a supers game is all. You neglected to mention role-playing. So your character is even more boring.

Actually it would be a Traveller game like any other - unless you happen to be GM/player that somehow thinks rolling 2d6+6 instead of 2d6+3 for example is suddenly untenable or unrealistic! The comment was clearly about role playing Khan vs Chekhov - a power comparison, not how you'd roleplay one and not the other.

I'd recommend we refrain from using personal opinion as some sort of absolute fact by which to render judgement, makes us look uncivilized.

 

[Nerhesi]

Role-playing a Khan character is boring. Role-playing a Chekhov character is more interesting.

Is it? What about characters with greater abilities simply being presented with greater challenges? Seems like there is plenty in the Traveller Universe that would sufficiently challenge even a supercharacter. What if for instance your character was an android with superhuman strength, lightning fast dexterity, incredible endurance because of the material it was made out of, it has a computer for a mind giving it high intelligence, has access to library files giving it a high Education, and has the personality programs to imitate a person of high social standing, in fact if he changes his outer covering, he could impersonate a noble and enjoy his high social standing for as long as the ruse holds up.

It's a matter of taste but all you're really doing is changing the scale. Tasks become more difficult, enemies become bigger and better armed. It doesn't change much at all.

Sometimes it's more work for the GM, sometimes not.

Personally, playing a superhero has zero attraction for me which is why I like Traveller over the majority of other RPGs. It's munchkin/power gamer nonsense to me.

I think you've hit the nail on the head and defined how it is just a matter of personal taste Hiro. Playing a regular average Joe who happens to be running rice and potatoes between system A and system B is much less attractive to me and my players. I say much less because we still do it - but perhaps, 1 in 5 games or so.

We absolutely detest rolling over all challenges and competitions even more so however - #1 reason we stop playing a game I'd say is if something becomes too easy. We enjoy challenging situations for Heroes, not so much a challenge for an amateur. Granted - Traveller doesn't really have super-heroes from stats. Superheroes become so from augments, gear, and smart thinking...

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I'd recommend we refrain from using personal opinion as some sort of absolute fact by which to render judgement, makes us look uncivilized.

Is that your personal opinion?

 

[Nerhesi]

I'd recommend we refrain from using personal opinion as some sort of absolute fact by which to render judgement, makes us look uncivilized.

Is that your personal opinion?

Absolutely! Though obviously not being used to render factual judgement on other people's play styles, intentions, roleplaying preferences, and other such intangible things...

I believe we've not only beaten this dead horse, but buried, exhumed and re-beaten by now!

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

We absolutely detest rolling over all challenges and competitions even more so however - #1 reason we stop playing a game I'd say is if something becomes too easy. We enjoy challenging situations for Heroes, not so much a challenge for an amateur. Granted - Traveller doesn't really have super-heroes from stats. Superheroes become so from augments, gear, and smart thinking...

So which is it? You want high stats and DMs to win die rolls? Or you don't want the game to be easy? Again, where's the role-play in your group? By the way, Traveller can totally do a supers game. But that will require role-playing to do it.

 

[dragoner]

Absolutely! Though obviously not being used to render factual judgment on other people's play styles, intentions, roleplaying preferences, and other such intangible things...

In an absolute sense, Mongoose Traveller, through Psion, Cybernetics, Robot, etc.; does support a more heroic play-style. I prefer a more middle road, partly because this isn't CT anymore and characters take longer to roll up for them to just die or not be rewarding as they can be, but also in wrapping my head around the fact of the future will be like Gattaca, those of the high tech worlds, and even descendants on fallen colonies will be more physically and intellectually fit, by virtue of their genetics having been "cleaned up", very few parents would opt for taking a genetic crapshoot with their children when there is another choice. Most sci-fi has been behind the times on the idea, or has presented it in a negative manner, where in reality it is a new science and huge advances are being made right now. So the fact is that most characters should be closer to Khan or Spock, in as that future societies will make basic investments into their people (themselves) in order to maximize their potential. If the tech is there, they would use it in their own self-interest.

The other side of the coin is that if one goes too far with it, most NPC become too low, which is fixable. Plus while a 13 looks more impressive than a 9, the only difference is a +1, which if a player gets earlier on, can help influence where they are going to put their skills, as they can spread them out more.

 

[-Daniel-]

One thing I've seen in Traveller games I've experienced is doing character creation together with players and referee. This helps prevent a player claiming they had a fantastic lucky streak of rolls....

I guess I have been blessed because I have not played with folks I couldn't trust or who felt the need to lie to the rest of us like this. I feel for you not being able to trust your friends. Must suck big time.

If agreed upon, there should be no issue rerolling a lousy hand or judging a certain bad roll will be forgiven to move the process along especially if the player likes how the character is developing. The ultimate situation is a playable character without munchkining it. Traveller chargen is not complex.

True, but then giving my players a way to start with a better chance at avoiding bad rolls from the start, would also allow us to make fun characters without the need to munchkin either. :wink:

 

[-Daniel-]

Overall my original question was not one of "Munchkin vs Lamo" levels of play. It was about raising the average by 1 or 2 points. So I appreciate the input and the opinions offered. I know what I will be doing in my game. Thanks All. :mrgreen:

 

[Condottiere]

If I recall correctly, there was a scifi novel called Interface, about an industrial upper class that had their children genetically enhanced, and their workers carefully drugged to be compliant. An insurrection is created by the head guy's son who wasn't enhanced, because his father believed that his superiorized genes will pass naturally on to him.

 

[CosmicGamer]

With the very poor internet access I currently have, I am unable to quickly find a 3d6 drop lowest probability chart or graph to compare with a 2d6.

Would anyone care to post a statistical comparison?

 

[-Daniel-]

Here is the 3d6 Drop Lowest:

Roll: 3d6D1
Statistics
Min: 2, Max: 12, Avg: 8.46, Std Dev: 2.215

Roll - Freq - Prob
2 - 1 - 0.5%
3 - 3 - 1.4%
4 - 7 - 3.2%
5 - 12 - 5.6%
6 - 19 - 8.8%
7 - 27 - 12.5%
8 - 34 - 15.7%
9 - 36 - 16.7%
10 - 34 - 15.7%
11 - 27 - 12.5%
12 - 16 - 7.4%

 

[Condottiere]

I calculated as 1.5, 3.5 and 5.5, so you'd average out at nine, which gives a modifier.

 

[-Daniel-]

I roll 2D6 down the line and role-play with that.

Would you ever roll 2d6 six times and let the player assign them to the stat they wish?

After playing with all kinds of different methods, I think the one I liked the most was just that. It gave the player a chance to drive toward the kind of character they wanted to play but didn't mess with the overall averages of the dice nor create super stats.

4557A6 or A67545 are neither overly powerful or game breaking. But if I want to play a scholar the first is clearly going toward that kind of character and if I want to play an ex-marine, the second is a better choice. And with role playing, each will end up being very different yet both have the exact same numbers.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I roll 2D6 down the line and role-play with that.

Would you ever roll 2d6 six times and let the player assign them to the stat they wish?

Nope.

And with role playing, each will end up being very different yet both have the exact same numbers.

Mechanic trumps role-play for most players.

 

[-Daniel-]

And with role playing, each will end up being very different yet both have the exact same numbers.

Mechanic trumps role-play for most players.

The key for me is that it is true about some, maybe even more than half. But I refuse to accept that only you and I care about playing a role. I think it is possible for a group that has found their niche to enjoy role playing as you define it and use mechanics to enhance the experience. Of course as we are discussing a whole host of subjective things here, it is a belief I can't prove. 8)

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

And with role playing, each will end up being very different yet both have the exact same numbers.

Mechanic trumps role-play for most players.

The key for me is that it is true about some, maybe even more than half. But I refuse to accept that only you and I care about playing a role. I think it is possible for a group that has found their niche to enjoy role playing as you define it and use mechanics to enhance the experience. Of course as we are discussing a whole host of subjective things here, it is a belief I can't prove. 8)

There is a vastly huge difference between playing a role, and role-playing a character.

 

[-Daniel-]

The key for me is that it is true about some, maybe even more than half. But I refuse to accept that only you and I care about playing a role. I think it is possible for a group that has found their niche to enjoy role playing as you define it and use mechanics to enhance the experience. Of course as we are discussing a whole host of subjective things here, it is a belief I can't prove. 8)

There is a vastly huge difference between playing a role, and role-playing a character.

Now I feel you are playing a game of semantics with me so I will stop participating in this conversation. It is clear you have grown to distrust all people to role play in a game and I have not. So no matter how you want it worded, there are people out there who do role play.