question about general campaign

[Marco Raimeous]

An issue came up today when I was having a campaign game. I had not thought of this before, did not realize this could happen.

If you are playing a campaign and a certain ship has gained a lot of upgrades due to earned kills, should that ship be bumped up a priority level.

My feeling is that if the ship earlied the experience, bumping it up is like penalizing it for going a good job. Also I find even with these extra abilities it is not worth double its priority level when it is not even close to double its firepower.

I also find the since it would be a sub par war level ship at best (talking about a vorlon destroyer here), this ship that did so well for me in the past would not be used again because I could have two normal semi upgraded ships for the costs of one more upgraded ship.

What do you think and has this ever happened to you in a campaign before?

 

[locarno24]

If you are playing a campaign and a certain ship has gained a lot of upgrades due to earned kills, should that ship be bumped up a priority level.

Why? As noted, a ship has to become twice as good to justify this.
What's wrong with a well 'ard destroyer?

How many upgrades are you claiming would be 'too many'?

 

[Marco Raimeous]

so far this is my destroyer, I call him "Solitude"


Ship Class Ship Name CQ XP Refits
Destroyer Solitude 5 1 Mothering, Resilient x3, Evasive, Aggressive, Urgent, determined

Just for those who don't know what upgrades these are it's (in order as shown) +1 fighter flight, 30% more health(10 x 3), one more 90' turn, +1AD, +1SP, +1 Repair

Since it was my flagship it got three upgrades for free to begin with. So I will admit that it is now a great destroyer but not as good as a light cruiser by far (7 AD of DD, precise, beam 24" vs. 6 AD of QD, precise, beam 30")

Also I can only get the +1AD once and the +1 turn once So that in itself limits how powerful this destroyer can become.

 

[skavendan]

Since it was my flagship it got three upgrades for free to begin with. So I will admit that it is now a great destroyer but not as good as a light cruiser by far (7 AD of DD, precise, beam 24" vs. 6 AD of QD, precise, beam 30")

Also I can only get the +1AD once and the +1 turn once So that in itself limits how powerful this destroyer can become.

Why do you get 3 FREE upgrades?

 

[Marco Raimeous]

Why do you get 3 FREE upgrades?

That is just the way the campaign was set up, everyone gets so much RR to buy stuff and one free battle level flagship that comes with 3 upgrades already on it.

 

[skavendan]

So it's not really your fault it's got so many you only gainned 4 more!

Under that basis I would say it cost what it cost.

 

[Marco Raimeous]

what about any number of upgrades, should an upgraded ship be bumped up knowing that it will never be as powerful as the war level equivalent? (fill in the priority level of any ship) I know that when an upgraded ship enters the field, usually that is the first one being gunned for and thus do not last long usually.

I think I have just been successful in keeping him alive because I am causious, keeping him in the back so an opponent has to fight through multiple beam attacks in order to hit him. (AKA using this need to kill to my advantage)

I just don't think ships should get penalized for doing a great job and surviving to boot.

 

[Da Boss]

I would say it costs as normal no matter how many refits unless your campaign sets it out otherwise.............

 

[skavendan]

I think 10 refits would perhapes justify a class bump.

10 on a patrol level ship after all would make it a mean little ship.

 

[Jim?]

unless you were rolling on the Dilgar refits table. Then it would probably be worse than when you started

 

[inq101]

I think 10 refits would perhapes justify a class bump.

10 on a patrol level ship after all would make it a mean little ship.

More than 10. Many upgrades have a drawback (gain DD, halve AD). 15 or so to bump a raid up to battle. I don't think smaller ships would normaly survive long enough to make refits count.

Always tell your opponent about upgrades (the game is full disclosure) so your opponent will normally be targeting these ships first.

 

[skavendan]

I think 10 refits would perhapes justify a class bump.

10 on a patrol level ship after all would make it a mean little ship.

More than 10. Many upgrades have a drawback (gain DD, halve AD). 15 or so to bump a raid up to battle. I don't think smaller ships would normaly survive long enough to make refits count.

Always tell your opponent about upgrades (the game is full disclosure) so your opponent will normally be targeting these ships first.

No way there are 11 refits in total half can only be applied once to say 15 refits you would have to have just about every possible refit!

halfing for DD works out at the same damage and when it's rounding up you gain a little bit more

 

[Burger]

halfing for DD works out at the same damage and when it's rounding up you gain a little bit more

Unless your opponent has interceptors, and to a lesser extent shields. In these cases you're better off sticking to single damage, double ADs.
You also do only half as many crits with double damage - admittedly those crits you do inflict will be double the damage, which balances it out. But the number of crit effects will be less.

 

[skavendan]

halfing for DD works out at the same damage and when it's rounding up you gain a little bit more

Unless your opponent has interceptors, and to a lesser extent shields. In these cases you're better off sticking to single damage, double ADs.
You also do only half as many crits with double damage - admittedly those crits you do inflict will be double the damage, which balances it out. But the number of crit effects will be less.

Sorry Sorry I forgot where not playing the spirit of the game were playing who can be the bentest of them all.

yeah with more single AD attacks you have a higher crit % woopy doo dar day

Maybe you should complain about the refits tables as well then.

 

[Burger]

Umm what?

 

[skavendan]

The problem is that halfing the AD and giving DD should equat to the same or better thus taking you away from the lots of small ships is automatically better.

This min / maxing aproach of getting as many Crit weapons into the game as possible is what directly makes some ships useless and others bricks adrift in space, because after the barrage of crits taken said ship is useless, in most cases this ends in the destruction of the ship but as some point out big ships or rather Narn ships tend to still be around just floating in space.

my point simply is if you feel the refits list doesn't do a ship justice complain about it! But I think there are too many crits in the game as it is.

 

[Rawwar]

But I think there are too many crits in the game as it is.

Whether you (or I) like the crit system or not is a side issue really because this is the environment we currently live in.

While min maxing is an issue in the games we've played recently, and you may be a little sore about it I think for now you need to roll with the punches. If Burger wishes to explain the min max arguments I for one don't mind reading them simply because that's what we're up against in our games.

Forewarned is Forearmed as they say.

Whether you like it our not we have to think like this because our opponents are & if we don't we'll get owned. It's as simple as that really so anyone who gets me thinking along those line on this forum is ok by me.

 

[inq101]

No way there are 11 refits in total half can only be applied once to say 15 refits you would have to have just about every possible refit!

Yes, but I still think you'd need at least this many refits to justify a PL bump on any raid or higher ship.

halfing for DD works out at the same damage and when it's rounding up you gain a little bit more

You round up any fractions so on average you will come in ahead. Also all of the turbo weapons refits are halve AD (round up) +1

 

[Marco Raimeous]

For vorlon there is I believe there are about 18 refits not including the extra fighter flight which can be gained infinite times. This is taking into acount that you can get the 10% damage bonus 5 times, the plus 1 repair 5 times and the +1 speed about 5 times(depending on the ship, some less some more)

Only one of the refits gives AD and that is applied once and gives 1 AD, if there is a # of refits where my ships would be bumped up, I would stay below it and just spend the exp. on increasing CQ or ingame rerolls.

 

[Ripple]

I had a Xaak that had every refit available but one... and the weapon upgrades a number of times as all the weapons ended up with at least one upgrade, most two. Something like 15 upgrades.

We felt it should have been bumped up at that point.

Ripple