question about general campaign

[skavendan]

I had a Xaak that had every refit available but one... and the weapon upgrades a number of times as all the weapons ended up with at least one upgrade, most two. Something like 15 upgrades.

We felt it should have been bumped up at that point.

Ripple

How many campaign turns is that over?

Whether you like it our not we have to think like this because our opponents are & if we don't we'll get owned. It's as simple as that really so anyone who gets me thinking along those line on this forum is ok by me.

Yes well you can not opt out of a refit update if you roll something you do not like that's how it is written since we are no doubt playing "what is written" over "the spirit of the game"

No way there are 11 refits in total half can only be applied once to say 15 refits you would have to have just about every possible refit!

Yes, but I still think you'd need at least this many refits to justify a PL bump on any raid or higher ship.

halfing for DD works out at the same damage and when it's rounding up you gain a little bit more

You round up any fractions so on average you will come in ahead. Also all of the turbo weapons refits are halve AD (round up) +1

I'll look at the refits and see what could potentially happen before I comment on that though I think 15 refits to take a patrol level to skimish will make one hard as nails patrol level.

 

[inq101]

I'll look at the refits and see what could potentially happen before I comment on that though I think 15 refits to take a patrol level to skimish will make one hard as nails patrol level.

I was saying for raid level about 15 seems right so using FAP system 8 or so to make a skirmish raid, 4-5 for a patrol to make skirmish.

I can't see many patrol ships surviving the half dozen games it would need to get that many upgrades so it would need to make a kill-shot on something big. If/When it does happen any opponent will probably be targeting it with every shot. You can shoot this Haven that is perfectly normal, or this one that has extra guns, fighters and is faster, but has exactly the same number of hits. Of course with a Haven you would always roll on the other duties table to try and get a Haven with a Haven escort.

 

[Marco Raimeous]

I was also just thinking of the crit aspect of putting this destroyer up to War level. It means the destroyer doesn't have the firepower of the light cruiser and at war level, crits are twice as bad because you are using twice the resourses to field it.

basically Instead of taking the war level destroyer, I would take two semi-upgraded destroyers. As far as crits go, this is much better crit protection than one war level upgraded destroyer.

 

[l33tpenguin]

I can understand the thinking behind 'upping' a ship a priority level, but disagree with it.

In an extended campaign, you have earned the right to field a better ship if its managed to survive long enough to get to the point that it is dangerous in comparison to other ships at its level.

Upping the priority level is a MASSIVE blow to someone who has earned it. Its a slap in the face for doing well in a campaign.

A smaller up-gunned ship is going to be a desirable target for larger ships. With some exceptions, I don't think there are many ships that are going to match the survivability and firepower of the next priority level.

 

[EDFDarkAngel1]

I also disagree with increasing the PL. So it's an awesome ship, it's the reward for rocking so hard.

If I gave my Hyperion 15 refits (if I can keep one alive long enough, that is...) there is NO FUGGING WAY I would ever accept it going up to Battle.

Dark Angel

 

[Marco Raimeous]

Upping the priority level is a MASSIVE blow to someone who has earned it. Its a slap in the face for doing well in a campaign.

I hear you, I kinda felt this way when it was suggested to me. I have grand plans for my A-team of destroyers.

 

[mollari_uk]

I disagree with increasing the PL level. I don't know what the refits are like for other races but for the Shadows it's a max of 50% more damage, +1AD, +1 speed, +1 flight, +1 repair, and something else.

If a scout got all these it would not be equivelent to a battle level ship. It would be a better raid ship, but not twice as good as it started.

If increasing PL was a rule I'd just not roll on the chart to take me to the next PL and keep the XP. Re-rolling dice can have a huge effect in the game.

 

[skavendan]

interesting points I think the vorlons & shadows refits are far more balanced and the fact they cost double to recruit kind of justifies upgrading them.

It's unlikely a patrol boat would servive? Well I disagree look at the Psi Corps patrol level ship it could quiet happily hide about 30" away and still serve a perpose (scouting), eventually achieving good weaponry from the refits table. It's no simple thing to sort out.

 

[Joe_Dracos]

It should be noted that said destroyer has achieved 5 upgrades, 1 CQ and its only turn two, also every other race is currently limited to ships produced at 2241 and earlier. This next turn we will be proceeding to 2252.

Continue discussion.

 

[Taran]

As long as we're discussing RAW, I feel it should be pointed out that the RAW make no allowance for bumping a ship up or down a priority level due to the Refits table.

Which leaves it to the decision of whoever is in charge of your campaign...

 

[Ripple]

Refits on the Xaak I had (since there is some question)

Antimatter Torpedo - LRTS, Additional weapons fitted
Antimatter cannon - Turbo weapons, LRTS
Antimatter shredder - LRTS

Ship wide refits - AJP, Superior Antiproton guns, Reinforced Hull x3, Supercharged thrusters x2, Extreme Maneuverability, New Captain, Adept Telepaths

So this was first ed... but...
hull 6, 46 damage, speed 9 (speed up to 6 1/2 SM), command +2, AJP

AT - range 30(45!) 8(4) AD of SL, DD, Precise, SAP
AC - range 10(15) 5(3) AD of DD, SAP
AS - range 20(30) 6(3) AD of DD, SAP
plus range 6 4 AD of AP, AF, TwL in all directions

Pretty kickin' ship for a 1st ed Vree battle choice, doing two SA's a turn.

I would have thought it was looking like a War PL ship, or at least worth a War PL's VPs if destroyed. I always wanted to jump in on a scout or two and eliminate them the proceed to long range bombard from the rear of the enemy.

To the folks saying you should get a reward for doing well in the campaign, you do get one... more money, ships and exp.

Would you want to play if what I got was an extra PL slot for every two victories I wracked up? The idea is to produce good, exciting games... if all my ships start being just better than yours is it still fun and exciting?

Ripple

 

[Marco Raimeous]

It should be noted that said destroyer has achieved 5 upgrades, 1 CQ and its only turn two, also every other race is currently limited to ships produced at 2241 and earlier. This next turn we will be proceeding to 2252.

Continue discussion.

True. So what about this, the destroyer cannot get any more upgrades until some of the other players get better ships and more upgrades themselves. I think an upgrade cap for now is much better than bumping it up for reasons stated earlier

P.S. Joe I finished the planet killer so it is itching for some practice, Sat. perhaps?

 

[l33tpenguin]

I kind of think of it like playing Monopoly. You bought up Boardwalk and Park Place. You have 4 houses on each. These two are very over powered properties. But should you have to wait until the other players all get houses on their best properties before you can get hotels?

That being said, I'm also one to end a game before it is 'officially over’ I don't stomp someone into the ground because I can. If the numbers are irreversibly in my favor, I'll say 'Good game' and end it there. If things in a game have progressed to the point where an opponent has no foreseeable change at winning, I don't see the point in playing it out unless they are determined to keep at it.

 

[Marco Raimeous]

That being said, I'm also one to end a game before it is 'officially over’ I don't stomp someone into the ground because I can. If the numbers are irreversibly in my favor, I'll say 'Good game' and end it there. If things in a game have progressed to the point where an opponent has no foreseeable change at winning, I don't see the point in playing it out unless they are determined to keep at it.

I don't like to stomp people either, in fact I would rather play the Vorlons who help the younger races, and go after those NPC characters.

Latest battle report: (exerp taken from our MSN group website)

Alright, EA tried to take one of my planets but Vorlon technology was working today so I took EA over my knee.

Final tally, 5 point battle, EA lost 4 raid, 2 skirmish and 2 patrol points. I lost a fighter flight. (1/3 pf a patrol point) Vorlons showed mercy by allowing EA to surrender and retain their remaining ships.

(One of the remaining ships was their biggest ship, the "Texas" Orestes)

[/quote]

 

[Joe_Dracos]

yeah that sounds like a cool idea.

 

[Joe_Dracos]

I should add that I mean bout trying to take out that planet killer

 

[l33tpenguin]

Are EA just weak against Vorlons, or are you just that good(lucky?)? Thats a beating that would send me running from a system with my tail tucked between my legs. I guess it could have been worse. Your fighter flight could have survived...

 

[Marco Raimeous]

My beams were working very well that day, popping about a ship a hit, and I was using my range to my advantage getting about 1-2 shots before he got in range. I also kept my fighters back to finish off anything that got behind the fleet, thats where the fighter died but in so doing, the group almost killed an Artemis frigate with one pass. 8)

To his credit he got a huge run away beam from an olymous gunship before it died that put one of my destroyers over half. :shock: Had the game continued I would have lost that destroyer but he most likely would have lost the texas. (in my opinion)

It is weird because usually my beams don't work this well and I am constantly mocked on the inferiority of Vorlon Technology. In the past, the early years rail guns made many baby Vorlons cry but not Wednesday. :twisted:

 

[Joe_Dracos]

Oh my posiedons will make your baby vorlons cry today.....

Mwahahahahahhahhahahahhahaha