Possible conflict in rules

[PsiTraveller]

Construction Deck Page 45

Primarily used on very large civilian vessels, this facility is effectively a mobile shipyard that can repair and even construct smaller ships. A construction yard can build a ship of tonnage equal to half the tonnage of the construction deck at a TL equal to the ship the construction deck is on.

Construction decks cost MCr0.5 and require 1 Power
per ton.


Shipyard Page 62

The smallest shipyards are found on civilian stations for the construction of small craft, but far larger construction sites can be found on the stations of megacorporations and militaries. Shipyards provide the facilities needed to build ships to the Tech Level of the space station.

A shipyard consumes five tons for every ton of the largest ship it is capable of building or the total tonnage of ships it can build at any one time (so, a 10,000 ton shipyard can build ships totalling up to 2,000 tons).

For every ton they consume, shipyards cost MCr0.5 and require 1 Power. They also need 1 crewman for every 10 tons.

In order to construct ships with jump drives, a shipyard must be of a suitable Tech Level, as defined on the Jump Potential table on page 14. So, for example, to build jump-3 ships, a shipyard must be at least Tech Level 12. Shipyards capable of building ships with jump drives have their cost increased to MCr0.75 per ton.

Question: Why can a Civilian construction Deck of 10 000 tons make ships of 5000 tons, and be mobile while a Space Station Shipyard of 10 000 Tons is only able to make ships of 2000 Tons?
Also: We know civilian shipyards can make Jump capable ships, so should there be an addition to the price of the Construction Deck to include Jump Drives?

The conflict is in the desire to have a mobile construction deck on a ship (possibly military) to work on and possibly make Jump capable ships. Do you use the Construction Deck numbers or the Shipyard numbers?

 

[phavoc]

I see no real issue with making mobile construction yards less efficient than a true shipyard. If we look at actual FRD (Fleet Repair Docks), and other mobile repair facilities, while they are capable of a great many things, they are inherently less efficient than a true shipyard. There are a variety of reasons why this may be, and it would have been relatively easy to add a sentence in the rules to that effect so you aren't asking that question. Perhaps it could get added to the errata list?

Dedicated in-place facilities have always been more efficient than their mobile brethren. There's no need to artificially restrict mobile shipyards if you take that into consideration.

 

[PsiTraveller]

The Construction Deck (which is mobile) is 2.5 times more efficient than the stay in one spot Shipyard. That is what I was pointing out.

Construction Deck (mobile): 10 000 Tons can make a 5000 ton ship

Shipyard: 10 000 Tons can make a 2000 ton ship. They should be reversed if you want the stationary Shipyard to be more efficient.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Nothing is said about how fast ships are constructed. A Referee might deem a shipyard faster, hence more efficient. The mobile Construction Deck should have some limitations.

 

[-Daniel-]

Nothing is said about how fast ships are constructed. A Referee might deem a shipyard faster, hence more efficient. The mobile Construction Deck should have some limitations.

Sadly the book does give a single off hand time frame. You even quote it in another thread. So we should address the amount of time needed in the book. The HG is the source for building ships, to not define better the time needed in the book seems a shame. And yes, given all things are the same, the mobile construction deck should have some limitations both in speed and ability.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Sadly the book does give a single off hand time frame.

I agree, it would be nice it if was defined, unfortunately it's not. The text we have is so full of caveats it's not usable as a rule, so build times are undefined.

 

[phavoc]

The Construction Deck (which is mobile) is 2.5 times more efficient than the stay in one spot Shipyard. That is what I was pointing out.

Construction Deck (mobile): 10 000 Tons can make a 5000 ton ship

Shipyard: 10 000 Tons can make a 2000 ton ship. They should be reversed if you want the stationary Shipyard to be more efficient.

Ah, in that case yes I would agree with you.

 

[alex_greene]

It's no conflict. They are both designed that way.

 

[PsiTraveller]

So a mobile shipyard is more efficient and can produce larger ships than a stationary shipyard for the same tonnage of space? Why not just build a Construction Deck on your space station instead of a Shipyard then? You use the same power and tonnage but can make bigger ships.

 

[fusor]

It's no conflict. They are both designed that way.

Are you seriously not seeing the problem here? Or are you saying "yep, it's supposed to be broken"?

 

[alex_greene]

So a mobile shipyard is more efficient and can produce larger ships than a stationary shipyard for the same tonnage of space? Why not just build a Construction Deck on your space station instead of a Shipyard then? You use the same power and tonnage but can make bigger ships.

Mostly because there's probably a practical limit on how big these decks can get on a ship, in terms of power and size. With space stations, there is no such limit.

I draw your attention to page 60, top left corner.

Just because your Travellers might have install a construction deck module intended for a ship mounted in a space station, it doesn't mean that every naval architect will do the same.

 

[-Daniel-]

So a mobile shipyard is more efficient and can produce larger ships than a stationary shipyard for the same tonnage of space? Why not just build a Construction Deck on your space station instead of a Shipyard then? You use the same power and tonnage but can make bigger ships.

Mostly because there's probably a practical limit on how big these decks can get on a ship, in terms of power and size. With space stations, there is no such limit.

I draw your attention to page 60, top left corner.

Just because your Travellers might have install a construction deck module intended for a ship mounted in a space station, it doesn't mean that every naval architect will do the same.

So you are saying we should not see one as ship specific and the other as station specific, but rather one is a more effective tool and they just happen to be in the categories they are because that is how they would "normally" be used? And that is was intentional to have the one mostly found on ships to be the better option?

 

[fusor]

Just because your Travellers might have install a construction deck module intended for a ship mounted in a space station, it doesn't mean that every naval architect will do the same.

If it's better, why wouldn't they? If there's supposed to be a size limit to limit one of them then it should be there.

 

[PsiTraveller]

Well if I can take a 100 000 Ton Planetoid and carve out a 20 000 Ton Shipyard or a Construction Deck inside that space my question will be how big a ship I can build inside that space. Can a construction Deck include Jump Engines? If so why is there no increase in price? If not then a Construction Deck can only make system ships, not Jump capable starships. This should be noted as well.

The existence of the Tigress Dreadnought at 500 000 Tons implies the existence of a Shipyard of at least 2.5 Million Tons, and that is only if that shipyard only builds the Tigress and no other ships, not even a maintenance tug. You are talking huge expense in people (250 000 crew to work there) and power. (125 000 Tons of TL 15 Fusion Plants to power the Shipyard).