Playtest Rules Space Stations

[Cuthalion]

on Patrol lvl have 1 weapon module
on Skirmish lvl have 2 weapon modules
on Raid lvl have 3 weapon modules
on Battle lvl have 5 weapon modules
on War lvl have 7 weapon modules

This will at least limit some of the firepower from some races and not be an overwhellming wall of firepower which they are not intended to be!![/quote]

Limiting the amout of modules used as weapon mounts will not solve the problem, limiting the amout of hard points will. Each base can still pack a good punch and be balanced by using no more than 50% of the hard points available as weapon systems.
thats of players want a fair and balanced system....

 

[Greg Smith]

point 2: is it did move i can see in some very rare game especially on high level stations where they could potentionaly move off of the table or into the planet. If it moves into the plaent there are no rules for it going BOOM! and same for what would happen if it moved off of the table!

Something that drifts into a planet is destroyed. If it drifts off the table, it is a strategic withdrawl.

At least that is how I imagined it when I can up with the idea.

 

[Grunvald]

point 1: a space station is immobile has the trait to prove it. SO how can it move 1" when it cant move???

It doesn't move 1", it is drawn towards the nearest gravity well when the thrusters go offline. Just because it can't choose to move doesn't mean it's fixed in place.

Adjective
Immobile:
im·mo·bile

1. not moving
2. not able to move or be moved

So if a sapce station is immobile it "CANT" move or be moved cause it is immobile!!!

oh and yes i did take the time to check up the word immobile!!!

I do agree that under realistic rules it could drift towards the planet if thrusters go off line but the wording on the trait is pretty clear, immobile is immobile!!!

 

[Grunvald]

Limiting the amout of modules used as weapon mounts will not solve the problem, limiting the amout of hard points will. Each base can still pack a good punch and be balanced by using no more than 50% of the hard points available as weapon systems.
thats of players want a fair and balanced system....

50% HP's on a star fortress is 12!

So 12 Graviton modules gives you 60 AD dice!

or 12 Shifter Modules could give you potentially 11 Critical hits under new rules!!!

12 Ion cannons 48 twin linked double damage AD

12 Repeater Modules 72 AD of twin linked nastyness!!

How on earth can you call using no more than 50% HP's fair??

After doing some extra calculations think dropping War lvl to 6 weapons instead of 7 cause you could still have max amount of some weapons at a 7 limit!!!

 

[The_Mhor]

Adjective
Immobile:
im·mo·bile

1. not moving
2. not able to move or be moved

So if a sapce station is immobile it "CANT" move or be moved cause it is immobile!!!

Or, if you take definition 1, it is immobile because it isn't moving.

In the same way a rock is immobile (it cannot move itself, and is not moving) until you kick it.

In any case, as you yourself said, the stations CAN move themselves, but it normally takes longer than the scope of time that a game of ACtA covers to make any changes; be that because the movment is so slow, or due to the time it takes to secure everything and repurpose the thrusters.


The campaign rules for spacestations state that you can only lose a strategic target by defeating any spacestation that is present, and the spacestation only has to be used under certain circumstances. Without the RR penalty every turn everybody will build at least a Patrol station on every target they hold, making it almost impossible for any campaign progress to be made. Does anybody know if the rules for this are changing too?

 

[Triggy]

Mhor - that's a great final point! Certainly needs checking into.

 

[Grunvald]

Sorry Mhor but its not if you take option 1 it is both 1 and 2
1. not moving
2. not able to move or be moved

That is the definition of immobile!!

So a space station CANNOT move, i only stated that in a "real world" enviroment under very DANGEROUS situations could a space station move!!!

But when have we ever been playing in a real world????

Its the crit hit saying that a station is moved is wrong and throws off all other ruleings!

 

[Da Boss]

re the station moving - doen't it auto repair next turn so will only ever move 1"

If in some bizare way it did disengage - do you get it back? Can you place it somewhere else

there does seem to be awful lot of stuff to be consdiered with the new (cool looking) Space Sation rules

Turreted, hugely powerful and L/R weapons on Patrol satelites, sheer size and damage capacity, campaign problems,

It may help (or not) to say that a Patrol and Skirmish station can only have 1 HP systems, a Raid and Battle 2 HP systems and only 3+ on War level.

 

[Grunvald]

Yeah a station will repair at end of following turn, but what is the point if it moving in the 1st place?

Positioning thrusters are ment to keep it in place, aggreed they could go offline but they would then put the station back into a "stable" orbit, so the acctual movement of the station in game terms is a waste of time!

Read previous post's on what "Immobile" means!

Saying a war lvl can only have 3HP systems when they have 24 HP's to use doesnt work!!!

 

[Da Boss]

no I meant that the War level can have any HP level - 3+

- the worry I have is the high end modules on dinky stations - like the big lasers at huge ranges - oh and turreted so the imobile bit is really not that important.

don't put it too near a planet (3 or 4 inches should be ok)

 

[Grunvald]

no I meant that the War level can have any HP level - 3+

Still not gettin what you mean!

But what i'm gettin at about the movement is that all i can see it doin is slowin down the game for very little reason!

 

[Da Boss]

sorry I had composed it badly

I meant to say that a War level station can have any kind of hard points it wants
A Raid or Battle level station can have hardpoints worth 2 pts or less
a Skirmish or Patrol can have hardpoints worth 1 pt

maybe let the battle have 3 pts as well? (or perhaps just one mayb eb better)

just ideas really....to try and stop the massive weapons on little bases

I see what you are saying re movement but it wont' slow it down too much and its fun to make a space station go spirlaling off towards a planet if only for a turn

 

[Greg Smith]

Just a quick point, compulsory movement happens before repairs, so a station would move twice.

 

[Da Boss]

Hey Greg

Any thoughts on the various potential problems with the Space Station rules as outlined on the thread? Seem to be quite a few?

 

[Grunvald]

AAhhh see what you mean now.

Limit the HP point level allowed for each station!

Yeah might work but on a Patrol and Skirmish lvl it not really worth it, having 3 and 5 HP.

And anyone who would want to slap a 4 HP module on one of hose deserves for them to get blown up for the shear stupidness of it!!

Limiting the Raid to 3 pt HP modules and the Battle and war to 4 makes a bit more senes as their title surgests "Battle & Star Fortress!" they are ment for heavy defence or times of war. (or should i say can be used / converted easy from science stations et al to defense, battle stations)

Moving: ok it can be fun to see a station move towards a planet but with out rules again i ask what is the point, no rules for stations burning up in atmosphere and without a SA ability performing some sort of emergency proceudre to rescue yourself, i still cant see a point to it except for game time wasting!

 

[Da Boss]

AAhhh see what you mean now.

Limit the HP point level allowed for each station!

Yeah might work but on a Patrol and Skirmish lvl it not really worth it, having 3 and 5 HP.

And anyone who would want to slap a 4 HP module on one of hose deserves for them to get blown up for the shear stupidness of it!!

Limiting the Raid to 3 pt HP modules and the Battle and war to 4 makes a bit more senes as their title surgests "Battle & Star Fortress!" they are ment for heavy defence or times of war. (or should i say can be used / converted easy from science stations et al to defense, battle stations)

Moving: ok it can be fun to see a station move towards a planet but with out rules again i ask what is the point, no rules for stations burning up in atmosphere and without a SA ability performing some sort of emergency proceudre to rescue yourself, i still cant see a point to it except for game time wasting!

ah but people are already thinking about stations like this:

Minbari Way Station (patrol)
Hull 4
Damage 40/20/10
Troops 4
Hardpoints 3 [Neutron Laser Module]
Antifighter 2, Immobile, Interceptors 2, Space Station.
Neutron Laser 36" 6AD T Beam, Double Damage, Precise

from earlier in the thread

my revised suggestion would be:

Patrol and Skirmish lvl stations, 1 or 2 HP modules only
Raid, 1 3 pt module and any number of 1 or 2 HP modules
Battle, 2 3 pts modules and any number of 1 and 2 HP modules
War, any HP modules the designer wants

plus some modules need rethinking - like the stealth modules being dependant on the overal size of the complete station.

I would hate to loose the idea, or have it so its almost worthless like the present version of Admirals (too expensive) (or worse have it go through unbalanced and then banned everywhere including MGP tournaments - liekt he Gaim and the 1st Ed V2 Troligan).

 

[Grunvald]

Yeah pokey little stations with UBER guns on them is not what the designers had in mind.

But if we follow your surgestions at battle level some fleets would be ungunned due to the fact of only having a 4 HP weapon, and if we dont limit the War level station we get the wall of laser fire at you every turn, which is again very unbalanced!!!

How about this for a limit upon weaponry:
Patrol level : 1 weapon module up to 2 HP worth
Skirmish level : 2 weapon modules up to 2 HP worth
Raid level : 3 weapon modules up to 2 HP worth
Battle level : 5 weapon modules up to 4 HP worth
War level : 6/7 weapon modules up to 4 HP worth

Limits the number of weapons you can have and how powerful a weapon a station can support (ie energy requirements)

If a station was ment to just be a weapons platform it would be a weapon satellite not a station where ppl work and live!!!

 

[Cuthalion]

Limits the number of weapons you can have and how powerful a weapon a station can support (ie energy requirements)

then why not build into each level of station a energy level to reflect the amout of power available to the staition and how much each weapon system would draw from that reserve? With the 50% rule i suggested it would stop players just picking the most powerfull weapon systems and force them to balance the defences.

 

[Grunvald]

Because then you go down the B5 Wars route of doing things, having power lvls for 1 thing diverting power to do another and so on and so forth.

And as i stated in a previous post 50% will only bring lots and LOTS of small weapons and UBER amounts of AD which is unbalanced!!!

Limiting what can be put on which lvl station is far quicker and more simple!

 

[Cuthalion]

Because then you go down the B5 Wars route of doing things, having power lvls for 1 thing diverting power to do another and so on and so forth.

And as i stated in a previous post 50% will only bring lots and LOTS of small weapons and UBER amounts of AD which is unbalanced!!!

Limiting what can be put on which lvl station is far quicker and more simple!

ive never played B5 wars and as you can not do a special action with a station how would you divert power and so forth? it was an idea i put forward which is what these forums are for, ideas to be bounced around to find a solution, not for some one to put an idea forward and then for someone to slap them down, which seems to be happening too much of late.