Playtest Rules Space Stations

[katadder]

lol these have just got worse with addition of the advanced hangar module for EA/psi corps.
hmm shall i spend my patrol point on a 2 flight wing of firebolts/black omegas? or shall i buy a waystation with 4 flights of advanced fighters and 4 flights of t-bolts.

think really going to have to concentrate on space stations and work out some balance for them.

 

[katadder]

well heres a 1st draft test of giving the modules offensive/defensive/misc stats.
havent tried to balance as yet but see what people think compared to current rules.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?aaaanaaawaa
changes are in blue.

 

[Da Boss]

looks good at first glance but must get back to work - would it be worth doing something similar to your Adaptive Armour with Stealth modules - cost more the bigger the station?

Lightning Module seems a bit hard maybe drop down to 2AD?

 

[katadder]

i didnt make any changes to what the modules do, just what hardpoints they use, and added an AA module.
stealth i dont think should be effected by station size so much. AA is because its more valuable the more damage you have.

 

[Silvereye]

true on alot of points but you have to remember the other racial modules allowed on these vessels.
for the most parts weapons are based off the same weapon in the fleet with a generally 25-50% increase in range.

Very true, but I feel that the usual racial balances that are applied (e.g. the Shadows molecular slicer beam being mounted on the Shadow Ship) doesn't seem to to be as significant when they are mounted on a station.

It is quite possible for the Drakh and Minbari (or Narn and EA) to build two identical stations with the same modules and differing by using the Beam weapons - just the Drakh station would be inferior to the Minbari (and the Narn inferior to the EA) despite them costing the same.

In any case, why should a Narn heavy laser be inferior to an EA heavy laser when they cost the same number of hard points? That is unfairly penalising a player for choosing to play the Narn over the EA. I am happy for them to have the difference in range, it shows the different design philosopies, but that difference should be made up for with other benefits e.g increased AD.

-edit-
Going to read the new station rule s now to see if this post was a waste of time. :?

 

[Foxmeister]

I am happy for them to have the difference in range, it shows the different design philosopies, but that difference should be made up for with other benefits e.g increased AD.

I think you can fine tune the modules by changing the increases to the cores damage levels from the module. That way, the EA can say keep its extra range, but the Narn core gains say double the core damage increase to compensate.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Grunvald]

The new station rules although do tone down the BIG guns (mainly beam) i still cant see it as being anywhere near being fixed!!!

katadder's dividing up of the Modules into Offensive, Defensive and Misc is great, but i'm not so sure about the points allocation on each station!

I understand the limits but if i dont want to put loads of guns on the station but would rather have a bit more defensive capability and a lot more misc items, under these limitations you cant do that.

It has to be X HP's for Offensive Modules X HP's for Defensive Mods and X HP's for misc!

As for the Adaptive Armour Modules you came up with:

Adaptive Armour Module (Defensive Module) Varies
Using ancient vorlon arts this station is sheathed in living adaptive armour able to adapt to deflect most of the damage directed at it.

Each Adaptive Armouor Module will increase the Core’s Damage by +10/+5/+0. It will also add the adaptive armour trait. The Hardpoints of the Adaptive Armour Module will vary according to the Core it is being attached to; Way Station – 1 Hardpoints, Colony Station –2 Hardpoints, Border Station – 3 Hardpoints, Battle Station – 4 Hardpoints, Star Fortress – 5 Hardpoints.

A stroke of genius!!!

 

[Silvereye]

I've been playing with the stations some more. In particularly with the 'similar' weaponry and the Offensive/Defensive/Miscellaneous Hardpoints.

First up, a couple of 'racially identical' Battle Stations. Both are built off the following modules:

• Heavy Laser Module (x2);
  Hangar Module (x2);
  Point Defence Module (x2);
  MedBay Module;
  Command Module;
  Habitation Module; and
  Traffic Protection

It results in the following:

EA
Hull:  4					
Damage:  250/125/45			
Troops:   30
Hardpoints: 16
Special Rules:  Anti-Fighter 7, Carrier 8, Command +1, Escort, Fleet Carrier, Immobile, Interceptors 12, Scout, Space Station
Craft: 4 Aurora, 4 Thunderbolt

Weapon              Range   AD     Special
Heavy Laser Cannon   45"     3     Beam, Double Damage
Heavy Laser Cannon   45"     3     Beam, Double Damage

Narn
Hull:  4					
Damage:  250/125/45			
Troops:   30
Hardpoints: 16
Special Rules:  Anti-Fighter 7, Carrier 10, Command +1, Escort, Fleet Carrier, Immobile, Interceptors 12, Scout, Space Station
Craft: 5 Frazi, 5 Gorith

Weapon              Range   AD     Special
Heavy Laser Cannon   36"     3     Beam, Double Damage
Heavy Laser Cannon   36"     3     Beam, Double Damage

Off/Def/Misc Hardpoints

The good thing is, this method of assigning hardpoints prevents you from mounting the larger weapon systems on the smaller bases. However, there are some problems particularly with the smaller stations (it must be noted that there are 'size limits' with the vanilla hardpoints system:

• A Way Station cannot mount an Armour Module;
  Drakh, Minbari, Shadows and Vorlons cannot mount weapons or hangers on a Way Station;
  Vree cannot mount weapons on a Way Station;
  pak'ma'ra cannot mount Hangers on a Way Station;
  GEG modules are only available on Border stations and above;
  Biotech modules are only available on Border stations and above;
  Shield Modules are only available on Battle stations and above;
  Stealth Modules are only available on Battle stations and above

I built this station as a typical example of using the Off/Def/Misc

Shadow Battle Station
Hull:  4					
Damage:  220/110/40			
Troops:   30 (?)
Hardpoints: 6 Off, 6 Def, 4 Misc
Special Rules:  Anti-Fighter 5, Carrier 4, Immobile, Interceptors 8, Self-Repairing 2D6, Shields 30/2D6, Space Station
Craft: 4 flights of Shadow fighters

Weapon                 Range  AD     Special
Moleculer Slicer Beam   36     3     Beam, Precise, Triple Damage
Phasing Pulse Cannon    12     6     Accurate, Double Damage, Super AP
Fighter Dispersal Tube  30     -     -

I found myself randomly thowing in the Hanger module in the above example as I couldn't really fins another defensive module that the station had space for. While Miscellaneous modules can be swapped for Offensive or Defensive modules in this proposal, I would suggest just combining the two and only limiting the Offensive hardpoints. For example, Way Station 3(1), Colony Station 5(2), Border Station 10(4) Battle Station 16(6), Star Fortress 24(10). Where the number in parenthesis is the maximum number of Hardpoints that can be spent offensively.

 

[Silvereye]

Modules.

As I said above I have been playing with Stations and have some comments on some of the available modules.

Advanced Point Defence Module [3hp]
Additional APD modules are pointless as you are better off just buying 3x Point Defense Modules for the same cost instead (and a better bonus). Also the penalty of loosing interceptors is in no way made up for by the Advanced Anti-fighter.
I'd consider reducing the cost to 2 and changing the effect to either; Remove Anti-fighter and Replaces Interceptors with Advanced Anti-fighter, OR Make the loss of interceptors dependent on the Stealth module. I'd make this module available to Vorlons as well as Minbari.

Bio-tech Modules [4hp]
I'd actually make these cheaper, and less powerful, so while 2 of this type of module will be similar, it is actually possible to use them on smaller stations and consider taking 2 or even three on the largest stations.

BIOTECH MODULE (2hp) - Each Bio-Tech Module will increase the Damage scores of the Core by +10/+5/0, and gives it the Self-Repairing 1D6 trait. Every extra Bio-Tech Module increases the Self-Repairing trait by +1D6.

Shield Modules [4hp]
Again, I'd actually make these cheaper, and less powerful, so while 2 of this type of module will be similar, it is actually possible to use them on smaller stations and consider taking 2 or even three on the largest stations.

SHIELD MODULE (2hp) - Each Shield Module will increase the Core’s Damage by +10/+5/+0. It will also add the Shields 20/1D6 trait. Each further Shield Module will add +10/+1D6 to this trait.

Stealth Module [4hp]
I'd make this trait a variable cost, based on the size of the station. Its certainly going to be easier to install a Stealth system to hide a Way Station rather than a Star Fortress

STEALTH MODULE (Xhp) - Each Stealth Module will increase the Core’s Damage by +10/+5/+0. It will also add the Stealth 4+ trait. A second Stealth Module will increase this to Stealth 5+. The Hardpoints of the Stealth Module will vary according to the Core it is being attached to; Way Station – 1 Hardpoints, Colony Station – 2 Hardpoints, Border Station – 3 Hardpoints, Battle Station – 4 Hardpoints, Star Fortress – 5 Hardpoints.

Command Module [3hp]
I'd split this into two Modules, a Command Module and a 'Scout' Module

COMMAND MODULE (2hp) - Each Command Module will increase the Damage scores of the Core by +10/+5/+0. It will also add the Command +1 and the Fleet Carrier traits. Each subsequent Command Module will increase the Command trait by +1.

SENSOR MODULE (1hp)
A Sensor Module beefs up the normal sensor suite present on the station, adding more powerful sensors and faster tracking systems to provide up to the second information of ship movements near the station while deep space relays monitor for any hint of enemy scouts.

A Sensor Module will increase the Damage scores of the Core by +10/+5/+0. It will also add the Scout Trait.

The sensor module means that you can build those fluff-y Listening Outposts without having to purchase Command or Fleet Carrier facilities.

GEG Module
I think this fits in with the variable cost systems, but it would also make stacking GEG modules prohibitive

Hardened Module
Again, this seems to fit the variable cost / variable effect. Certainly hardening a Star Fortress would be more costly and provide a proportionally bigger damage improvement than a Way Station. Must be careful to make sure that the Hardened Module weighs favourably compared to 'bulking out' with a Habitation module or two.

Armour Module
Is it worth decoupling the Damage multiplier from the +1 Hull

Some ideas for additional modules:

General Module: Cargo Facilities
pak'ma'ra and Vree (and Raiders?): Cargo Bays (bigger/better cargo facilities)

EA: I'd make the weapon modules more varied by era.

Drazi: Re-fit Bays - Able to convert any Warbirds in your fleet roster into Strikehawks (and vice versa) between campign turns.

Dilgar: Experimentation suites (nice little chambers where the Dilgar test their newest 'discoveries' out on POWs).

Finally, would it be worth making some modules 'cost' damage. I.e. fitting a particular Module to the station actually reduces the amount of damage it can take. examples might be Stealth (lots of delicate systems) and Space Docks (vast open spaces and exposed superstructure).

 

[l33tpenguin]

When combining the idea for 'types' of hardpoints with the rather 'generic' station cores, you have to factor in that the 'generic' core is going to be a mix of offense, defense and other ability. Most stations are likely to have a hanger.

This forces you to create a more 'practical' station, not just a super gun. Of course, I also like the idea of allowing 'super guns' but at a cost. A more offensive station core could have more offensive hard points, but fewer total hard points.

 

[katadder]

katadder's dividing up of the Modules into Offensive, Defensive and Misc is great, but i'm not so sure about the points allocation on each station!

I understand the limits but if i dont want to put loads of guns on the station but would rather have a bit more defensive capability and a lot more misc items, under these limitations you cant do that.

most stations will have some weapons. but if you want you can only use defensive and misc modules as in the rules I wrote for this seperation the misc modules can be put on any other hardpoint too so you could use all offensive hardpoints for misc modules.

 

[Grunvald]

Ok i miss-read that bit!

Under your rules eg Colony station
Hardpoints: 4 Off, 4 Def, 2 Misc

Normally 10 HP's ok fairly even distribution, but do you meam when placing misc Mod's any where that you can only have the 2 listed or can you change any of them to misc?

If it only use two and place them anywhere then you loose out on HP's!

Also going with your points on the Way station some races cant place a weapon on due to you limitations!

 

[katadder]

some races cant hav things like mini-beams thats true only on patrol stations.
with the example you gave you have 2 misc slots to fill that dont take up other slots. then you can exchange any of the other off/def slots for more misc.

 

[Grunvald]

Ok misc mods sorted out and the exchange thing cleared up!

But if any races cant place (for eg) weapons upon a station due to a "system", then doesnt that make the "system" slightly unbalanced?

And isnt that what we are trying to figure out!

A fair balancing system for all races! (or as near as we can come up with there are nearly always going to be minor problems)

 

[katadder]

perhaps it limit stations for that race.
after all minbari dont have any patrol ships, so an unarmed patrol waypoint providing other facilities is not out of the question.
same with shadow/vorlon tech stations. perhaps certain weapons shouldnt be on stations below a certain level, i see no problem with this.

 

[Grunvald]

I'd probabley agree with you if it was under normal circumstances, but in a campaign, where i see most of these stations being used, everyone will want at least 1 weapon on a core station no matter what the level.

Visualise goverments building science stations or an observation post they wouldnt put huge amounts of weaponry on them just 1 for defense against wandering meteors / asteroids!

 

[katadder]

not always. think of star trek which has lots of stations. some are just big hangar types. some would also be sensor type stations, small (patrol) but with powerful sensors. and for random bits of rock even the smallest has interceptors.

 

[Grunvald]

not always. think of star trek which has lots of stations. some are just big hangar types. some would also be sensor type stations, small (patrol) but with powerful sensors. and for random bits of rock even the smallest has interceptors.

I think that this is a point that we will have to agree to dis-agree!

 

[noobdelux]

i actually think that the nerf on the ad for the drakh Neutron cannon is too mutch
i mean that 5 is maybe too mutch, 3 is too low


also the hardned module for narn could do with a nerfing in how mutch damage you get or with an slight increase on how big the station is

 

[Grunvald]

OK been going through the different races Modules and trying out different combos and come up with a few problems so i'll show a few of them!

1 Narn Hardened Module 2 HP

Placed on a star fortress with no limits here is what you could end up with!

Hull: 4
Damage: 250/125/60
Troops: 50
Hardpoints: 24
Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 6, Immobile, Interceptors 10, Space Station

2 Heavy Laser's
1 Energy Mine
1 Ion Cannon
7 Hardened Modules

Hull: 4
Damage: 1330/665/305
Troops: 50
Hardpoints: 24
Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 6, Immobile, Interceptors 10, Space Station

HLC 36" 4AD Beam, x2
HLC 36" 4AD Beam, x2
E-Mine 45" 4AD AP, E-mine, Slow, x3

Who needs any deffence with that many Damage points, may be only hull 4, but it would take nearly an entire game with shooting nothing else to blow it up!!!

Recomend a limit of 1 on the Patrol, Skirmish and Raid Stations, 2 on a Battle and 3 on the War!