Playtest Rules -- Drazi

Lone Gunman

Mongoose
I will try to playtest the new special action this Friday so some questions came up my mind:

1. Rerolling all misse: For beams, ok. But what about those masses of twin-linked weapons?
a) Do I first roll AD, then reroll all hits and then reroll all misses due to twin-linked?

b) Roll all AD, reroll all misses, reroll all hits? and then again, when all hits are reroll, are the misses then again rerolled due to twin-linked?




:oops: [/u]
 
I would say the golden rule applies: You cant reroll a reroll so anything thats already been rerolled as per a beam or twin linke isnt subject to this rule.

So it would be roll all AD

Put reroll all hits cos of attack run and reroll all misses cos of twin linked.

Second results stand in all cases. In fact this sounds rather stupid now I think of it as your just rolling all AD twice so I'd say the easiest answer is that it just cancels out with twin linked.
 
Is still maintain a better fix to the rule would be:

Drazi ship makes its attack run and rolls CQ. If it passes it makes its attack rolls immediately.

However if it fails it has missed it's attack run and cannot make any attacks this turn. It does NOT count as a ram, the drazi ship is simply placed at the end of it's run and it cant fire any weapons this turn.

Another idea might be to make it so that a drazi ship attempting such an attack run may not dodge this turn as it is focussed on flying in on the strike rather than evading being shot (but this latter part is very much a 'maybe')

I'm absoultely certain that the free ram if you fail is the part the really makes this from a nice idea to just flat over the top. It basically means theres no real downside to this at least for one off games. Drazi tend to be numberous and swarmy so losing a ship to take out a potentially much larger target is hardly that bad and if you succeed in your attack run then you still get to shoot it loads before anything can return fire.

Theres no 'oh it's gone horribly wrong and now I'm going to get pwned' aspect of the order to make you ever NOT want to do it (certainly not if the target is a higher PL!) its just a case of 'free shot' or 'free ram'. If it was changes as I meniton above it would be 'free shot' or 'no shot at all and now youre a sitting duck'

Thoughts?
 
I posted my proposed solution on another thread, but this looks like a better place for it:


I agree that re-rolling hits is probably a little tough on the Drazi. I'd suggest a compromise, and that is that when performing an attack run, beams are treated as mini-beams and twin-linked weapons lose the trait for the duration of the attack run. That leaves a handful of weapons that are unaffected, but I don't see that being a particular issue.

Regards,

Dave
 
We should probably first just test this as it is written, and report. We may then decide about the ramming rule becoming an aborted run, and report on that result.

Our conclusions should come in the form of "Drazi underperform", "Drazi overperform", "Appears balanced", or the worst possible result, "No fun".
 
CZuschlag said:
We should probably first just test this as it is written, and report. We may then decide about the ramming rule becoming an aborted run, and report on that result.

Our conclusions should come in the form of "Drazi underperform", "Drazi overperform", "Appears balanced", or the worst possible result, "No fun".

You're going to start me off on Stealth again if you're not careful. No fun indeed ;)
 
Hey, it's a playtest. Part of that word is "play". If it's not fun, how can you say it's been "play"tested?
 
No no no sir, you misunderstand me!

I was merely mentioning in passing that I still despise the stealth rules as though they are perfectly fair and balanced in my oppinion now they are excrementally un-fun to play with or against and are just reduce the game to a contest of lucky dice rolling a bit too much for my liking.
 
Won't get to try this until Saturday, but I do somewhat like the strafing run feel. I have concerns though that rather than stay an interesting an unique racial trait this will lead to a general move and fire system, which would suck.

Things I don't like right now...

CQ test - 50/50 roll for most games... ick... if I want something I'll use I want more than 50/50... otherwise I'm almost always better off with TTT (which is also sub-par for me...) unless I feel like gambling. I'll go to Vegas for that.

Confirmation rolls - repeated rolls make low percentage shot vanishing... twl vs hull 6 is already near worthless, doing it twice is a joke. Warbird goes to what, two hits to a third of a hit... better off all powering and getting out of dodge.

Accidental Ram - too many issues here... though to be honest the requirements for choosing to ram always bugged me. To hard given how unlikely you are to succeed. If you could still attempt while skeletoned that would be right for Drazi/Narn at least... and frankly EA... fairly certain those ramming Omega's were low on crew. But on topic... you don't want it to become a way to make 'crewed missiles' and bypass the normal ramming rules. At the very least the other ship should get a CQ check to avoid.

Things I'm hearing that I do like...

Miss the CQ and you don't fire - gamble on the loss of the shot, but do you still have to line up on him at some point?

No dodge on the turn you make the attack run - I like in some ways but the ships are so darn fragile it's asking to just lose it anyway. Might as well be the crewed missile. What about the big ships that have no dodge to lose?

Do the SA in one turn to fire in the next - not firing the turn before so you can fire during movement in the second turn is not terrible as long as you also get to fire in the fire phase of the second turn. You wouldn't want to give up fire opportunities. That's part of what your trying to fix here.

Eh... Rambling... like I said... Saturday we decide... green or purple...

Ripple
 
Made game now with the test rules. The feeling is ok, but... meh doesn't really work.

I was more often dice rolling than ever due to having beam, twin linked and then rerolling all misses. This shouldn't be so and slows the game considerably down. At least the game was short. I wasn't able to hit the broad side of my enemies ships due to having reroll any hit. Maybe my bad dice, but this means that almost nothing from my ships hit. The only thing I was waitingg for at the end of firing a sunhawk was to roll a 6 to ram and do some serious damages instead of shooting at the paint.
 
Copied from the General Playtest Results thread, stay here for armchair quarterbacking:

Davesaint and Ripple will shortly be posting their impressions, but we just ran 2 tests of Track That Target (Triple-T) and Attack Run.

The tests were 3 Warbirds, 3 Strikehawks against 6 Vorchans and against 6 Olympus.

Vs. Olympus, What Happened:

Initial finding was that the Drazi strongly underperformed. While TTT helped, it just wasn't enough. On the first turn, the Drazi were forced to choose between beam shots and no CBD vs. no shots but only eating the missiles. As it turned out, there was a third option that neither of us saw at the time, but would have been superior. One tactical mistake then snowballed and the Olympus at the Drazi for lunch.

What We Learned:

CQ 9 for TTT is just too hard for the Drazi; they need it at 8. However, I don't like EA having it at 8 (especially the Hyperion!); I'm thinking Drazi special rule.

One Attack Run succeeded, and did some decent damage. However, the requirement that hits had to be confirmed really stank. Decided then and there that failed Attack Runs should come with no firing penalty, and there should be no confirmation roll.

Turret races and ships eat Drazi for lunch.

Vs. Vorchans, What Happened:
A fortutitous dust cloud and some good initial placement allowed the Drazi and Vorchan exchange to be with the Drazi in the dust cloud and the Vorchans outside of it and outside of 8. One Drazi Strikehawks and several Particle Cannons didn't get to fire. However, two missed stealth checks and a 4-6 critical to a Vorchan meant only 3 Vorchans fired (still crippling 1 Warbird). Drazi eliminated one Vorchan in exchange. Drazi hit 1 TTT allowing for one set of potshots against a target that it normally couldn't have fired at (target ship was already dead). 3 Sky Serpents were then launched, against which the Vorchans proved to have little defense. Both fleets then overflew each other and started to come around; the Vorchans to avoid the Sky Serpents, and the Drazi to try Attack Runs. No Attack Runs succeeded (2 attempts). More of them couldnt be tried as the base size of the Warbird didn't clear the base of the target ship of the overrun. This happened repeatedly; some defenses even evolved where Attack Runs were prevented by keeping the Drazi from having a legal place to put the base of the overrunning craft after the shot, usually by having one ship directly behind the other. Turn 3, both fleets engaged; one Vorchan was killed outright by 3 Sky Serpents. The crippled Warbird, another Warbird, and a Strikehawk went down to Vorchans in exchange for 2 more Vorchans. 2 Track That Targets succeeded, but one never got to fire as a Vorchan squadron just decided to eliminate it. The other kept its original target. Down 3 ships to 2, the Centauri kept at it, got a good come about, but failed another Stealth check against the Dust Cloud. In exchange, that ship got shot, and the turn after, the Sky Serpents finished it off. At this point the game was over.

What We Learned:

Drazi got very, very lucky throughout the entire fight. Stealth saved them by the grace of dice alone, and they hit a ton of Come Abouts. TTT is the Drazi CAF roll, a SA you take on an attack run as an option of opportunity. The wording on TTT doesn't force you to take the off-bore shot, so you can keep your current target at full dice or use them off-bore for 1/2 dice; we love this option. You can positionally defend against Attack Run by playing base-denial games. We had one instance of the Drazi player wanting to move first (when have you ever heard that!?!) so his Attack Run target couldn't get away in time, very cool. Attack Run may succeed too rarely, but I'm not as certain about this one as a Drazi successfully TTTing on CQ 8 instead of 9, especially since there are tactical defenses. Supported Vorchans are much less ppwerful than supported ones. If the Centauri had Wolfpack as written, we would not have even had something you could call a game, no need for Interceptors, Stealth Targets, Sponges, nothing --- Hunting Packs are just busted.

Better tales will be told by Davesaint and Ripple.
 
CZuschlag said:
If the Centauri had Wolfpack as written, we would not have even had something you could call a game, no need for Interceptors, Stealth Targets, Sponges, nothing --- Hunting Packs are just busted.

Not sure how this could have happened vs the Drazi really as Boresight weapons can only be redirected vs targets within the boresight arc. If they don't TTT then that arc is a straight line and the odds of another ship being along it are quite slim. Realistically other than the 6 ship squadron all firing at once, I think the Drazi would realistically be one of the better races vs the wolfpack due simply to the way boresight works.

Cheers, Gary
 
You could have moved the Vorchan on the boresight and just a bit closer after the Drazi has positioned its boresight. Then, you can never concentrate on just one target, you have spread your firepower all over the place.

And, of course, Track That Target becomes absolutely useless/a liability.
 
So the Fire Raptor - still rubbish then :wink:

from Katadder:

oh and heres my upgraded fireraptor for my LONAW supplement:
Speed: 8 Damage: 75/20 Craft: 1 Sky Serpent Flight, 4 Star Snake Flights
Turns: 2/45 Crew: 88/24 Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 2, Carrier 2,
Command +1, Jump Engine
Hull: 6 Troops: 6 In Service: 2269+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Solar Cannon 18 B 6 Beam, Triple Damage, Slow Loading
Heavy Particle Cannon 15 B 6 Beam, Double Damage
Heavy Particle Blaster 8 F 8 Double Damage
Particle Repeater 12 F 14 Twin-Linked
Missile Rack 30 F 6 Precise, Slow-Loading, Super AP

2nd beam is double damage (as the battle level ship manages this) and more dice on the repeater.

a bit better 8) but still needs a little more I think - maybe as it a huge great fat thing make it a fleet carrier - plenty of room for hangers etc ?
 
In all honesty, fire in the movement phase seems interesting as a concept to counteract the massive dependancy on boresighted weapons.

On the other hand, isn't Track that Target! supposed to do the same thing?

The rerolling hits I don't like as you get into the 'to reroll or not to reroll' confusion with beams and twin-linked weapons. If you have to reroll every dice (hits for Initiate Attack Run!, misses for twin-linked) then the first roll becomes pointless.


One thing that isn't nice, by the way, is the sheer amount of firepower that can be unloaded if you line up the attack run right. The current record in playtests is overflying two Chronos-class frigates, a Poseidon-class carrier, and two Starfury flights (one each side of the carrier, that had just been launched). Easier than it sounds, given that you have a 12" move and can still turn on the attack run. A Warbird's armament isn't that fragile in the grand scheme of things but when it gets to fire five times in one turn I assure you it hurts.

"In the Movement Phase, the ship may make an immediate attack against any enemy target it moves through or over"

Would anyone care to clarify if that's intentional?
 
The Attack Run rule wasn't designed to counteract the boresight issues of the Drazi, it is there to reflect their aggressive nature. The way it is used is very much a side effect.
 
Just a thought
Attack run - Ship must be have 10 move or more & 2 turns
Every stem the Drazi ship crosses during movement phase a CQ9 roll is made, half AD is fired at that ship, beams don't get rerolls due to lack of time firing at the target. Must move full distance. Attack resolved during movement phase. A roll of 1 means the ship can return fire at that moment.

Not really a fan of race only SA but wouldn't mind Drazi having +1 bonus, it might be CQ10 for other races. If it's too powerful, say crits must be confirmed on 4+.
 
Do you still have to win an opposed QC per the Ramming rules if you roll a 6 and fail to pull out? This came up last Friday.

Thanks

tschuma
 
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