Playtest rules: Crusade era and 3rd age

[katadder]

a 5pt raid fleet against vree at 3rd age I would use 1 omega, 1 hyperion, 1 avenger and 2 artemis. artemis give out good damage at skirmish. you also have 13 fighters probably 8 t-bolts and 5 starfuries that have fleet carrier bonuses and recovery. a good range in the omega along with withh 6 and interceptors.

I may change 1 artemis for 2 hermes bringing 2 more fighters and some missiles/init sinks.

 

[CratZ]

But once Vree gets his ships in range your fleet is quickly without ini sinks and after that easy win for Vree?

 

[Omnipotent]

Edit:typo & double post

 

[Omnipotent]

a 5pt raid fleet against vree at 3rd age I would use 1 omega, 1 hyperion, 1 avenger and 2 artemis. artemis give out good damage at skirmish. you also have 13 fighters probably 8 t-bolts and 5 starfuries that have fleet carrier bonuses and recovery. a good range in the omega along with withh 6 and interceptors.

I may change 1 artemis for 2 hermes bringing 2 more fighters and some missiles/init sinks.

5 ships...u are never going to get a boresight. Two hermes instead of a Artemis, is better then u maybe get your boresight...why do I go on with this boresight, ouh yeah, it is the only weapon 2/5 of your fleet has that has some potential 3rd Age has.

 

[katadder]

5 ships you can get a boresight. as chances are you will move at least 3-4 of your ships 1st so any of those 4 an omega or hyperion could boresight. maybe not the best target but its removing targets.

 

[Silvereye]

Or then Vree just deploys in hyperspace and is in the middle of your fleet on turn 2.

Probably the worst place to put your Vree. In most cases, they should never be in the middle of an enemy fleet, especially if that fleet is EA.

Some ships (or even whole fleets) are designed to engage ships one at a time untill it dies (e.g. Minbari, Vorlon, Shadows, Vree). Some fleets are designed to rip apart mutiple targets over multiple turns. (e.g. EA, Dilgar, Centauri)

The big benefit of the Vree - Turrets mean that 100% of your fire power goes where you want it to go. You never have wasted AD sat in arcs with no targets. Your only drawback is range in some cases. The problems with this, is that they do not suit being in middle of a furball as they do not have the combined AD of more than 1 arc available.

What the SM/Turret combination allows the Vree to do is dictate which of the enemies arcs they are going to be engaged in.

 

[CratZ]

Well not that much in middle, but somewhere that I have minimum AD.

 

[Da Boss]

If most of the Vree are in hyperspace I'm guessing the opponent is on All stop so they can pivot ? Unless they are Shadows.............

re boresight - well you will get a shot unless they are not behind terrain and so have the usual problem of having ships in front of you but the ships behind the terrain stop you firing.

Glad I usually play a civilised race like the Centauri who don't use boresight.

 

[katadder]

if they hide enough ships behind terrain that my 2 boresight ships cant fire then the non bore-sight ships can handle whats left
I notice alot of people say this but even using hermes they are part of my battle line. I wouldnt hide them as you never know when their missiles will do the job you needed. or even their 6AD standard which sees alot of use from me.

 

[Omnipotent]

if they hide enough ships behind terrain that my 2 boresight ships cant fire then the non bore-sight ships can handle whats left
I notice alot of people say this but even using hermes they are part of my battle line. I wouldnt hide them as you never know when their missiles will do the job you needed. or even their 6AD standard which sees alot of use from me.

heh, that´s just it. The only useful ships 3rd age has are Hermes and Olympos :roll: ...and we do not want to go swarm now do we :wink:

 

[katadder]

3rd age has more useful ships than that - hyperion and hyperion assault, artemis, avenger, even the explorer is useful. then omegas, poisedons and warlocks. i like the entire list although the scout is a bit lacking.

 

[Foxmeister]

i like the entire list although the scout is a bit lacking.

Lacking what? Nothing wrong with the Oracle, and the Explorer.. well, nuff said!

Regards,

Dave

 

[katadder]

lol just looked at the oracle, its better than i remembered
its the stealth 3+ is a let down there, but ok I like the entire 3rd age list

 

[Omnipotent]

3rd age has more useful ships than that - hyperion and hyperion assault, artemis, avenger, even the explorer is useful. then omegas, poisedons and warlocks. i like the entire list although the scout is a bit lacking.

By useful I mean "stand a chance against there opponents same level ships", which in other words means u want to buy lower level ships to stand a chance.

Hyperion vs Targrath/Omelos...hah
Omega looses to a Tikrit
Poiseidon can´t really be compared
Warlocks are ok, but can´t win a Mankhat or Mishakur

...as I see it they 3rd age needs to spam skirmish and patrol ships to stand a chance...In a way okey, they could be like "orks" or "skaven" with a mass army, only problem it does not work cause the opponent can get equally many ships, with the current army build system.

 

[Foxmeister]

[
Hyperion vs Targrath/Omelos...hah
Omega looses to a Tikrit
Poiseidon can´t really be compared
Warlocks are ok, but can´t win a Mankhat or Mishakur

Hmmm!

Hyperion vs Targrath or Omelos - The Targrath/Omelos don't throw out that many dice at range, and most of it will end up getting intercepted. As long as the Hyperion gets a boresight reasonably regularly, I'd expect a Hyperion win.

Omega vs Tikrit - Once the Tikrit gets within 15", the Omega is in trouble, but again if it gets a boresight early it can end the game for the Tikrit before it gets into range. Even when it is in range, the Tikrit doesn't have that many more dice than the Omega when you take both the beam and heavy pulse cannon on F-arc into consideration. I'd think it's 50/50 here.

Warlock vs Manhkat or Mishakur - I really can't see the Warlock losing this one too often.

Regards,

Dave

 

[CratZ]

But they do have lots of dices at long range. Those missiles are 24". With APTE those missiles will be in range on turn 1. Once concentrated interceptors won't save your ships.

EA wont be able to do the same amount of destruction with their beams. If dilgar players sees I get a good lineup with my beams, he will eliminate those first. With their ini, they most probably, are the ones to shoot first. On top of that they have a pentagon so over 50% of the dilgar fleet will shoot before EA can react.

next turn any lumbering ships I have will be destroyed by bolters if he can't get better targets (bye bye omega).

Prove me wrong.

 

[Foxmeister]

But they do have lots of dices at long range. Those missiles are 24". With APTE those missiles will be in range on turn 1. Once concentrated interceptors won't save your ships.

Not necessarily! The EA player can generally start further back if they wish (e.g. Call To Arms, Annihilation, Space Superiority etc). APTE won't get too many ships within 24", but will possibly get you within 30" and then the EA can focus all their long range beams and missiles and take out a ship or two with no fear of return. Also, if EA wins initiative at setup, he can deploy in such a way so as to avoid your most dangerous ships or give himself and extra turn to deal with them.

With their ini, they most probably, are the ones to shoot first.

Why? They have the same base initiative, so it'll all be about command bonuses. Whilst the Dilgar can take an Oklavita-Ka or two, EA can take an Explorer and it will likely be around far longer than the Oklivita-Kas will. For the most part, initiative is likely to be 50/50.

next turn any lumbering ships I have will be destroyed by bolters if he can't get better targets (bye bye omega).

If you're worried about that, why isn't your Omega sitting on its baseline on All Stop and Pivot?

Prove me wrong.

We were comparing ships - you are talking tactics!


Regards,

Dave

 

[CratZ]

Might be we have played on a table that too small, but he always has managed to come within range if that is what he want's.

3rd age has base ini +1 and dilgar has +3? Don't have the books here so I Can't check it out. Im pretty sure he always has had a +2 advantage against me even with command. How 1 equals 3 is beyond my math...

Tactics is an important aspect when comparing ships. Especially since every ship is so different you have consider what kind of tactics they are capable of. Thats my opinion anyway.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

Dilgar base ini is +2.

 

[Foxmeister]

3rd age has base ini +1 and dilgar has +3? Don't have the books here so I Can't check it out. Im pretty sure he always has had a +2 advantage against me even with command. How 1 equals 3 is beyond my math...

Sorry, Crusade has +2 and 3rd Age only +1 - I got a little confused about which fleet we're talking about. However, Dilgar only have base initiative +2 (not +3), so I guess your opponent is taking an Oklavita-Ka to get to +3. 3rd Age could take an Avenger or Explorer to get back to just 1 down on initiative, and you can use your long range beams and missiles to "remove" the advantage early on if you wish.

Tactics is an important aspect when comparing ships. Especially since every ship is so different you have consider what kind of tactics they are capable of. Thats my opinion anyway.

Yes they are important - if you are not taking advantage of the additional range on your Omegas beam, or the missiles on other ships, you are playing into your opponents hands. Letting him get into bolter range without having thinned him out first is your problem - not the ships themselves.

Regards,

Dave