Playtest Rules 1.1 - Vree
- Thread starter Everyman
- Start date
Omnipotent
Mongoose
Is there going to any work done to reduce the SM of the Vree...that is the main broken thing in this fleet IMHO...reduce it to 1/4 and I see it as ok...as it is right now, no way in hell are u going to get those buggers who just picks up there fleet puts it down where they want and still fire with all they got. :evil:
BTW, ACTA forum got a pump hurray! 8)
BTW, ACTA forum got a pump hurray! 8)
eldiablito
Mongoose
Omnipotent said:
That's pretty heavy handed. Currently, at half speed, the Vree are VERY vulnerable to breaching pods and boarding actions. Your statement that they just get to pick up their ships and place them anywhere is very misleading. Perhaps your opponents are not playing them correctly? Perhaps you are just letting yourself get in too close? Additionally, they have a low hull and no other defenses (except for the Vaarl and the Xarr). If you want to do that, then you are essentially killing them (Imagine a Xill that can only go 2 inches with SM).
Methos5000
Mongoose
There is a problem right now though with Vree SM and their new SA as it currently stands, its very easy for a vree ship to get within 2" of many enemy ships (they just usually don't because the short range gun is 10"). Giving them automatic crew kills that gives them VP, however limited, is going to be the death of races with low crew counts.
Vree are already good against Drazi and ISA do they need more help against them?
Has there been any word if this SA is change to scale by priority like the shadow scream? I'm still seeing fields of Xaars to fight if this isn't changed.
Vree are already good against Drazi and ISA do they need more help against them?
Has there been any word if this SA is change to scale by priority like the shadow scream? I'm still seeing fields of Xaars to fight if this isn't changed.
Omnipotent
Mongoose
eldiablito said:
He is using em correctly alright. It´s just that he can also keep one ship on the board, create 4 JP and jump in almost where he wants then start SM me to death
One thing I have not yet tryied is creating a VERY heavy hitting pentagon with my Dilgars, with like 3 Targraths, a Tikrit and an Ochlavita Ki, and use the SA 90´turn, maybe even using an Mankhat, in it instead of a Targrath.
eldiablito
Mongoose
I've gone up against my buddy's Dilgar and they do just fine. I'll ask him what he is fielding again; perhaps his fleet and/or strategies are paying off for him?
Flashing Blade
Mongoose
Hey! leave the vree be alright?
We're very vulnerable to boarding actions, 2 with stealth 1 with dodge(not inc fighters), no beams, low troops, no interceptors, no breaching pods, no armageddon ship, low hulls(on smaller ships), no fleet carrier ability and suffer really badly from weapon crits. Oh yeah and Init 0.
Our light carrier just got downgraded so what do you all want?
A non-vree SA; CQ auto vree lose?
The vree are a great fleet and I love them despite their shortcomings, I suggest everyone looks to their own fleets before crying foul on the vree.
That said I do believe that the new SA should be less powerfull on lower priority ships, say D2, D3, D4 for patrol, skirmish and raid respectively.
We're very vulnerable to boarding actions, 2 with stealth 1 with dodge(not inc fighters), no beams, low troops, no interceptors, no breaching pods, no armageddon ship, low hulls(on smaller ships), no fleet carrier ability and suffer really badly from weapon crits. Oh yeah and Init 0.
Our light carrier just got downgraded so what do you all want?
A non-vree SA; CQ auto vree lose?
The vree are a great fleet and I love them despite their shortcomings, I suggest everyone looks to their own fleets before crying foul on the vree.
That said I do believe that the new SA should be less powerfull on lower priority ships, say D2, D3, D4 for patrol, skirmish and raid respectively.
Omnipotent
Mongoose
Vulnerable to breaching pods??? U´ve seen the amount of anti-fighter even there patrol level ships have?
There super ap, dd is murder, not even the Dilgar have a chance, played 4 games (ACTA) against Vree, massacre for Vree...how can u beat All power to engine BUT still usually get ALL weapons firing...
I mean as our gaming group goes, 3rd age is at the bottom with Crusade age, then comes centauri, then Dilgar and undeafeted Vree takes all games but planetfall/assault).
Ouh well some ranta bout those damn Vree...if someone could give me a tactic how to beat Vree with Dilgar in a ACTA scenario then cool :evil:
There super ap, dd is murder, not even the Dilgar have a chance, played 4 games (ACTA) against Vree, massacre for Vree...how can u beat All power to engine BUT still usually get ALL weapons firing...
I mean as our gaming group goes, 3rd age is at the bottom with Crusade age, then comes centauri, then Dilgar and undeafeted Vree takes all games but planetfall/assault).
Ouh well some ranta bout those damn Vree...if someone could give me a tactic how to beat Vree with Dilgar in a ACTA scenario then cool :evil:
well you can board him with the special action launch breaching pods and shuttles if he is using the SM ability as he is moving half or less.
also you have similar weapons but can have hull 6 ships at skirmish instead of hull 4 and rorhics are extremely manouvrable due to low speed and 2 turns.
also you have similar weapons but can have hull 6 ships at skirmish instead of hull 4 and rorhics are extremely manouvrable due to low speed and 2 turns.
Pawnographer
Mongoose
A separate thought on something bothering me. The new Vree Z’Trikk Heavy Carrier has a Hull 6.
The Vree players are always trying to excuse the VM's sm, overpowered antimatter weapons, every weapon is a turret, pumped-up patrol boats and heavy fighters with the refrain that the Vree have glass jaws (weaker hulls, fewer damage points). Well, I find the Vree are very tough. I certainly feel that with all of their advantages, NO Vree ship should get Hull 6 - especially a carrier (i.e., the Drakh Mothership's hull will be reduced from 5 to 4 because it is a carrier - well such logic should be double for the Vree).
I suggest it have a Hull 5.
Let the flaming from the Vree players begin!
The Vree players are always trying to excuse the VM's sm, overpowered antimatter weapons, every weapon is a turret, pumped-up patrol boats and heavy fighters with the refrain that the Vree have glass jaws (weaker hulls, fewer damage points). Well, I find the Vree are very tough. I certainly feel that with all of their advantages, NO Vree ship should get Hull 6 - especially a carrier (i.e., the Drakh Mothership's hull will be reduced from 5 to 4 because it is a carrier - well such logic should be double for the Vree).
I suggest it have a Hull 5.
Let the flaming from the Vree players begin!
CZuschlag
Mongoose
The War-level carriers are uniformly poor. They're just not the same impactors as things like the G'Vrahn, Sharlin, Dra'Vash or Shadow Ship. They're just not. The Z'Trikk might be the first one that actually is worth it. We'll see.
I agree with you on a couple of other ships; most notably, the Xonn, Xeel/Tzymm, and Xaar. Just not the Z'Trikk.
I agree with you on a couple of other ships; most notably, the Xonn, Xeel/Tzymm, and Xaar. Just not the Z'Trikk.
stepan.razin
Mongoose
CZuschlag said:
Hmm, a firebolt-full Poseidon never failed me
Greg Smith
Mongoose
Not all variants have the same hull - Veshatan/Neshatan, Shadow scout/stalker don't.
My concern isn't really about the hull, it is the quantity of very good fighters combined with long-ranged SAP firepower. It is the Xeel writ large.
My concern isn't really about the hull, it is the quantity of very good fighters combined with long-ranged SAP firepower. It is the Xeel writ large.
those variants are over differant PLs though.
and the combind firepower of every fighter on the z'trikk is 100AD. the combined firepower of having 24 t-bolts on the posiedon is 96AD. the tzymms are also slowerthe posiedon also has better command on an already higher init, interceptors, more damage, more crew and more AD if shorter ranged and not as powerful.
yes the z'trikk is long range but then it will only be recovering fighters on 6s generally whereas the poseidon is up there supporting its fighters and throwing them straight back into the fray.
most of the above comments can be applied to the cidikar too, more damage/ crew, interceptors and its fighters have hull ignoring, interceptor ignoring mini-beams. and the ship itself carries a beam too.
the xeel had a problem because it was as well armed (if not better) as other skirmish ships and carried the fighters. the z'trikk is not anywhere near as well armed as other warships. also you could always get 20 tzymms using xeels for one war point which produces 140AD of fighter firepower so any nerfs to the z'trikk would see it never used.
and compare it to the ship its a variant of:
it carries 4 more torps and 16 more fighters, plus loses a point of command and all those every turn DD weapons.
and the combind firepower of every fighter on the z'trikk is 100AD. the combined firepower of having 24 t-bolts on the posiedon is 96AD. the tzymms are also slowerthe posiedon also has better command on an already higher init, interceptors, more damage, more crew and more AD if shorter ranged and not as powerful.
yes the z'trikk is long range but then it will only be recovering fighters on 6s generally whereas the poseidon is up there supporting its fighters and throwing them straight back into the fray.
most of the above comments can be applied to the cidikar too, more damage/ crew, interceptors and its fighters have hull ignoring, interceptor ignoring mini-beams. and the ship itself carries a beam too.
the xeel had a problem because it was as well armed (if not better) as other skirmish ships and carried the fighters. the z'trikk is not anywhere near as well armed as other warships. also you could always get 20 tzymms using xeels for one war point which produces 140AD of fighter firepower so any nerfs to the z'trikk would see it never used.
and compare it to the ship its a variant of:
it carries 4 more torps and 16 more fighters, plus loses a point of command and all those every turn DD weapons.
Foxmeister
Mongoose
Greg Smith said:
Talking of the Veshatan - surely that is a prime candidate for a nerf?
Regards,
Dave
Foxmeister
Mongoose
katadder said:
You mean *massively* high damage for a 4+ stealth vessel? It's got more HPs than the fleet book G'Quan! Our local minbo player took a Neshatan once, just once, and then settled back to the Veshatan because it's much the same vessel for half the price.
Regards,
Dave
