Playtest New Rules Centauri
- Thread starter Da Boss
- Start date
No. 1 Bear
Mongoose
"Hunting Packs are trained for constant manoeuvre, hitting an enemy hard and all at once, then spiralling away out of harm"
Maybe centauri squadrons consisiting of ships of skirmish level of below may be grouped into a squadron. The range allowed btween the ships for them to now stay within a squadron is 12". All other rules of SQUADRONS p.25 aplly.
Just alittle bit more flexibility and NOT PLAIN WRONG.
Maybe centauri squadrons consisiting of ships of skirmish level of below may be grouped into a squadron. The range allowed btween the ships for them to now stay within a squadron is 12". All other rules of SQUADRONS p.25 aplly.
Just alittle bit more flexibility and NOT PLAIN WRONG.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
I was talking to Triggy just now, and ran this idea past him. He approved. See what you maniacs think...
Centauri Hunting Packs
The Centauri are famous for using hunting packs of light warships to overwhelm larger enemy vessels. Any Centauri ships of skirmish PL or lower may form a Hunting Pack at any time during a game - not just during deployment. The Pack moves and acts as a normal squadron, but it can be formed or disbanded at the start of any turn as long as all ships intending to join are within the normal squadron range at the end of their move.
Basically, allow the Centauri to form squadrons "on the fly" with no extra bells and whistles. Simple, not overpowered, but a nice little touch for them. Thoughts?
Centauri Hunting Packs
The Centauri are famous for using hunting packs of light warships to overwhelm larger enemy vessels. Any Centauri ships of skirmish PL or lower may form a Hunting Pack at any time during a game - not just during deployment. The Pack moves and acts as a normal squadron, but it can be formed or disbanded at the start of any turn as long as all ships intending to join are within the normal squadron range at the end of their move.
Basically, allow the Centauri to form squadrons "on the fly" with no extra bells and whistles. Simple, not overpowered, but a nice little touch for them. Thoughts?
Lord David the Denied said:
Basically it's the same as the Gaim Dynamic Squadrons rule, but for Centauri ships of skirmish or lower. I think this would work fine as well. I presume this means the 4-ship limit is not removed with the rule as it is with the current playtest version or are you envisioning 6 ship squadrons as well? From a fluff standpoint I think 6 ship squadrons are appropriate for the wolfpack, but I understand they may be too powerful. Would this still be the case if it's only allowed to skirmish ships & below though?
Also, I think perhaps we need a rule to encourage the use of the big Centauri ships, expecially the canonical ones as was mentioned earlier in the thread. JMO though...
Cheers, Gary
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
All normal squadron rules would remain, so four ships max. Four Vorchans is quite enough to do away with most single targets in one or two passes, and in big games - when you'd be forming wolfpacks mostly - you'd have multiple packs at the same time anyway.
I kinda liked my idea better, I just think the Centauri skirmish line needs no help,but...
This idea has some merit, unlike the wolf pack can't kill me rule. Concerns here are timing. I would not remove the four ship limit, and I would say have to start their move within normal squadron range rather than end it.
Reasons for this are easy of use (which ships were joining again? what if one doesn't make it?) and to prevent any odd sinking stuff. This still allows the Centauri to constantly form hammer level attacks that will at worst shoot second in a turn.
Ripple
This idea has some merit, unlike the wolf pack can't kill me rule. Concerns here are timing. I would not remove the four ship limit, and I would say have to start their move within normal squadron range rather than end it.
Reasons for this are easy of use (which ships were joining again? what if one doesn't make it?) and to prevent any odd sinking stuff. This still allows the Centauri to constantly form hammer level attacks that will at worst shoot second in a turn.
Ripple
Ripple said:
This would make it the same as the Gaim rule which works pretty well I think, though I also think having them end their move in squadron range kinda seems more pack-like IYAM. Gives the image of ships coming together at the last moment to viciously attack the enemy before rolling back out of formation. Given that thought, I think having them end in squadron range is probably more in character for this particular ability. JMO though.
Cheers, Gary
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
silashand said:
That's pretyt much what I'm going for.
No. 1 Bear
Mongoose
CZuschlag said:
Allright one vote.
CZuschlag
Mongoose
I worry about Skirmish dynamic squadrons a bit. I think Dynamic squadrons are WAY underrated; kept mostly intact by the relative inability of Gaim ships themselves to cause critical hits. I think this might require some real careful thought.
It doesn't fall into the "well, it MIGHT be an improvement" category. (Granted, No. 1 Bear's idea doesn't, either) It's a definite improvement to a bunch of units, that, frankly, don't need it -- the Mograth, Darkener, and Vorchan have been on my watch list for a while; they haven't been scrutinized simply because the Demos is so over the top. Ripple has that part right.
I've gotta think on these.
It doesn't fall into the "well, it MIGHT be an improvement" category. (Granted, No. 1 Bear's idea doesn't, either) It's a definite improvement to a bunch of units, that, frankly, don't need it -- the Mograth, Darkener, and Vorchan have been on my watch list for a while; they haven't been scrutinized simply because the Demos is so over the top. Ripple has that part right.
I've gotta think on these.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
The Morgrath? There's no way in all the nine Hells that's unbalanced.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Another idea I had while working today...
Barrage Fire.
The Centauri are famous for mounting large batteries of ion cannons on their capital ships, and these can be fired in massed barrages, saturating a volume of space with so much fire that no ship in the targeted area can evade being hit.
Any Centauri Balvarin, Altarian, Magnus, Elutarian, Dargan, Primus, Secundus, Octurion or Adira class ship can employ its ion cannons or heavy ion cannons in barrage mode. Half the AD of the ion cannon being used. Designate a point in space in arc and range of the weapon. Any ship or fighter within 3" of this point is attacked with the halved AD. The ion cannon loses its twin-linked trait but retains double damage. A heavy ion cannon retains AP. Any dodge or interceptors on the attacked ships or fighters are ignored but any other defensive trait, shields, adaptive armour, etc, still applies. Stealth rolls need not be taken to target an area with this attack. Scout re-rolls may not be used.
Basically, this would improve the Centauri's chances against dodge, interceptor and stealth heavy fleets, but the half AD and loss of re-rolls hits them fairly hard. A Primus would roll 6 dice against a White Star, for instance, so unless it got some ansty criticals the target would likely survive a single attack. The idea is powerful against a few fleets and worthless against the rest. Is it too powerful? I leave that for those wiser than myself to determine.
Barrage Fire.
The Centauri are famous for mounting large batteries of ion cannons on their capital ships, and these can be fired in massed barrages, saturating a volume of space with so much fire that no ship in the targeted area can evade being hit.
Any Centauri Balvarin, Altarian, Magnus, Elutarian, Dargan, Primus, Secundus, Octurion or Adira class ship can employ its ion cannons or heavy ion cannons in barrage mode. Half the AD of the ion cannon being used. Designate a point in space in arc and range of the weapon. Any ship or fighter within 3" of this point is attacked with the halved AD. The ion cannon loses its twin-linked trait but retains double damage. A heavy ion cannon retains AP. Any dodge or interceptors on the attacked ships or fighters are ignored but any other defensive trait, shields, adaptive armour, etc, still applies. Stealth rolls need not be taken to target an area with this attack. Scout re-rolls may not be used.
Basically, this would improve the Centauri's chances against dodge, interceptor and stealth heavy fleets, but the half AD and loss of re-rolls hits them fairly hard. A Primus would roll 6 dice against a White Star, for instance, so unless it got some ansty criticals the target would likely survive a single attack. The idea is powerful against a few fleets and worthless against the rest. Is it too powerful? I leave that for those wiser than myself to determine.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
Pretty much giving them the pak's plasma web trait.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
To a great degree, but without requiring multiple ships to do it. Or actually gaining the e-mine trait.
There aren't many new ideas, Greg, but lifting and modifyiung existing rules that fit works just fine. Care to comment on the idea itself, oh playtester?
There aren't many new ideas, Greg, but lifting and modifyiung existing rules that fit works just fine. Care to comment on the idea itself, oh playtester?
Greg Smith
Mongoose
It is interesting but very, very nasty. It does pretty much everything an emine does, but also causes criticals. It suddenly makes the big Centauri ships extremely powerful against the Minbari and ISA.
Now given the proliferation of emines among more and more fleets, I have no problem with big Centauri ships firing a barrage. But it would have to be toned down in power.
Now given the proliferation of emines among more and more fleets, I have no problem with big Centauri ships firing a barrage. But it would have to be toned down in power.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Greg Smith said:
How would you suggest toning it down? If it can't cause criticals, but retains DD, it would still be useful, but you'd never kill an Omega or Nova this way. It was my intent to make this useful against more than just the ISA with their 10-damage White Star and Minnbari. Indeed, the stealth bypass is an after-thought.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
You won't kill Omegas or Novas with it - to do that you need direct fire weapons that cause criticals.
At the moment, it is better than the pak plasma web, because you don't need a squadron to do it.
A little bit of calculation:
12 TL DD vs a Whitestar: 6.66 hits, dodged =3.33. Roughly 6 damage, plus 50% change of a crit.
6 DD Emine: 2 hits, 4 damage.
Against a Tigara:
12 TL DD: 6.66 hits, 13.32 damage, plus one crit on average (dependant on stealth). Stealth 5+ means it happens 1 in 3, with reduction it is probably 1 in 2 on average.
6 DD emine: 2 hits, 4 damage.
So it isn't overpowered, just less dependant on luck than regular weaponry for hitting ISA and Minbari.
As I said, it is easier to use than the pak's plasma web, plus I'm not sure the Centauri need more ways to kill White Stars. Not to mention it can offer a 3" range increase over regular ion cannons.
I do like the idea - it gives the Centauri big ships something better.
At the moment, it is better than the pak plasma web, because you don't need a squadron to do it.
A little bit of calculation:
12 TL DD vs a Whitestar: 6.66 hits, dodged =3.33. Roughly 6 damage, plus 50% change of a crit.
6 DD Emine: 2 hits, 4 damage.
Against a Tigara:
12 TL DD: 6.66 hits, 13.32 damage, plus one crit on average (dependant on stealth). Stealth 5+ means it happens 1 in 3, with reduction it is probably 1 in 2 on average.
6 DD emine: 2 hits, 4 damage.
So it isn't overpowered, just less dependant on luck than regular weaponry for hitting ISA and Minbari.
As I said, it is easier to use than the pak's plasma web, plus I'm not sure the Centauri need more ways to kill White Stars. Not to mention it can offer a 3" range increase over regular ion cannons.
I do like the idea - it gives the Centauri big ships something better.
