Iron Domokun
Mongoose
In the SFU, Klingon ships just don't use cloaking devices. Reason? Because Klingons with cloaks was a major plot point of a movie that the license doesn't cover.
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Plasma Torpedos vs. Drones
- Thread starter logical_proof
- Start date
Keeper Nilbog
Mongoose
Really enjoying the discussion of 'historical information' on the KR series. But what does this have to do with drones vs Plasma's ? Could those in the know start a 'History' thread ?
Whilst i haven't played yet (hoping to tonight) don't think that Plasma's are an under-powered system. As most ships with them carry multiple, and i don't see much reason not to launch all of them together (arc's allowing), thats a large amount of AD coming your way - and whichever god you follow help you if you get targeted by several ships in one turn. The smallest ships throw out 6-7AD (KF5R only throws 4), and you can only use Phaser's defensively against them (which if P-1's will be in Killzone as no-one's going to throw small torps from over 8", so a waste of additional damage as it just kill's 1AD regardless). So, on average around 3-4AD will get through - 4-24 damage, averaging around 14 damage - which will half most shield's up to medium/heavy cruiser (klingon's fare better if attacked frontally). If you've got no shield's, hope you've got a spacesuit, it's a long walk home.
Whilst i haven't played yet (hoping to tonight) don't think that Plasma's are an under-powered system. As most ships with them carry multiple, and i don't see much reason not to launch all of them together (arc's allowing), thats a large amount of AD coming your way - and whichever god you follow help you if you get targeted by several ships in one turn. The smallest ships throw out 6-7AD (KF5R only throws 4), and you can only use Phaser's defensively against them (which if P-1's will be in Killzone as no-one's going to throw small torps from over 8", so a waste of additional damage as it just kill's 1AD regardless). So, on average around 3-4AD will get through - 4-24 damage, averaging around 14 damage - which will half most shield's up to medium/heavy cruiser (klingon's fare better if attacked frontally). If you've got no shield's, hope you've got a spacesuit, it's a long walk home.
Iron Domokun
Mongoose
That's my experience. The OP's comparison ignores the terrifying one-turn crunch power of up-close plasma. Especially when you are able to concentrate the plasma from more than one ship on a target.
The Mongoose boards seem to be particularly bad for OT wanderings.
Really enjoying the discussion of 'historical information' on the KR series. But what does this have to do with drones vs Plasma's ? Could those in the know start a 'History' thread ?
The Mongoose boards seem to be particularly bad for OT wanderings.
logical_proof
Mongoose
This topic isn't about how powerful or weak plasma is on its own, only in comparison to drones.
Iron Domokun
Mongoose
In comparison to drones, plasma's better.
Iron Domokun said:In comparison to drones, plasma's better.
Please expand upon that.
GalagaGalaxian
Mongoose
Well, I'm not Iron Domokun, but here are my thoughts. Sure I've missed a few considerations though.
Plasma Torpedoes
+ Plasma using ships above Frigate size tend to have more AD worth of Plasma Compared to Kzinti ships number of Drone AD.
- Plasma are shorter ranged, and lose AD over distance
+ Attacks concentrated into fewer, larger salvos means less resources to stop it
+ Only phasers and dodging can stop/weaken Plasma Torpedoes
- Must be reloaded after firing, consuming a special action
+ A Level 2 Weapons critical can only potentially knock out a single Plasma Torpedo Tube
- A Level 1 or 5 Weapons critical will reduce the AD of all Plasma Torpedo systems individually
+ Plasma Torpedoes can be bolted making them immune to defensive fire at the cost of AD and range. Non-Romulans can use Plasma-Fs in Carronade mode, ignoring stealth and firing every turn*
- An individual Plasma Torpedo cannot split it's AD across multiple targets (several torpedoes can fire at several targets however
Drones
- Kzinti ships tend to have less AD worth of drones than equivalent Romulan or Gorn ships of the same class, excepting perhaps Frigates.
+ Drones are the longest ranged weapon in the game, and maintain full damage at maximum range
- less AD fired per individual turn means more AD worth of attacks stopped by enemy defenses.
- Drones can be dodged, shot down by Phasers, Anti-Drones, other Drones and Tractor Beams
+ Capable of constant sustained fire without spending special actions
- A Level 2 Weapons critical can potential knock out a ship's entire drone armament
+ A Level 1 or 5 Weapons critical will reduce only 1 AD each from a ship's drone armament.
- Drones have no alternate firing modes
+ Drones can split AD freely
* Uncertain, there is errata pending on Plasma Carronades being able to fire every turn.
Plasma Torpedoes
+ Plasma using ships above Frigate size tend to have more AD worth of Plasma Compared to Kzinti ships number of Drone AD.
- Plasma are shorter ranged, and lose AD over distance
+ Attacks concentrated into fewer, larger salvos means less resources to stop it
+ Only phasers and dodging can stop/weaken Plasma Torpedoes
- Must be reloaded after firing, consuming a special action
+ A Level 2 Weapons critical can only potentially knock out a single Plasma Torpedo Tube
- A Level 1 or 5 Weapons critical will reduce the AD of all Plasma Torpedo systems individually
+ Plasma Torpedoes can be bolted making them immune to defensive fire at the cost of AD and range. Non-Romulans can use Plasma-Fs in Carronade mode, ignoring stealth and firing every turn*
- An individual Plasma Torpedo cannot split it's AD across multiple targets (several torpedoes can fire at several targets however
Drones
- Kzinti ships tend to have less AD worth of drones than equivalent Romulan or Gorn ships of the same class, excepting perhaps Frigates.
+ Drones are the longest ranged weapon in the game, and maintain full damage at maximum range
- less AD fired per individual turn means more AD worth of attacks stopped by enemy defenses.
- Drones can be dodged, shot down by Phasers, Anti-Drones, other Drones and Tractor Beams
+ Capable of constant sustained fire without spending special actions
- A Level 2 Weapons critical can potential knock out a ship's entire drone armament
+ A Level 1 or 5 Weapons critical will reduce only 1 AD each from a ship's drone armament.
- Drones have no alternate firing modes
+ Drones can split AD freely
* Uncertain, there is errata pending on Plasma Carronades being able to fire every turn.
Iron Domokun
Mongoose
While I think drones are weaker than plasma, drone-using ships also have other weapons, balancing it out. One of the most important uses of drones is to suck up phaser fire and let your own phasers and disruptors fire while you face reduced return fire.
GalagaGalaxian
Mongoose
True Kzintis have Disruptors (typically about half the amount a Klingon ship of the same size has), though if someone decides to go for long-range bombardment that doesn't mean as much unless they stay inside disruptor range.
Thought Plasma sucks up enemy phaser fire too, just less often.
Thought Plasma sucks up enemy phaser fire too, just less often.
Keeper Nilbog
Mongoose
The main thing with Plasma is it generally WILL take out some of the enemies phasers for defensive duty if he wants to reduce the impact, and with a cruiser throwing between 7-12AD at you (that 7-12d6 damage), who wouldn't. You have more options to counter drones.
Downside is that you will probably be using phasers against the drones they would have used against attacking drones (though as most fleets on that side of the quadrant have mainly Ph-1's, kills are very likely)
Downside is that you will probably be using phasers against the drones they would have used against attacking drones (though as most fleets on that side of the quadrant have mainly Ph-1's, kills are very likely)
Speaking of the advantages/disadvantages of plasma, I was curious about how well plasma users like the Romulans and Gorn play against Klingons and Kzintis. Because both the Klingons and Kzintis have extremely maneuverable ships, and should if they're careful enough stay out of the 8" range where plasmas are effective.
Keeper Nilbog
Mongoose
Haven't tried Gorn yet, but with the mods to initative and lumbering, i can see Gorns having issues with bringing full salvo's to bare against Klingons, and the shield rule with half the effect of Plasma's. If a Gorn can get close - it WILL bring the pain, but it's got to get close first (can see Gorn fleets running a fair few frigates, though there not as weak as they may seem - 7AD plasma + 3 Ph-1)
As for phasers as anti-drone, we'd be using them to reduce Plasma's, and we now have a few 'tractors' to play with which we don't vs plasma (still think the hull need a slight boost - reduction in crippled level. But from games played, when crippled it's generally game over unless out of the furball)
As for phasers as anti-drone, we'd be using them to reduce Plasma's, and we now have a few 'tractors' to play with which we don't vs plasma (still think the hull need a slight boost - reduction in crippled level. But from games played, when crippled it's generally game over unless out of the furball)
Keeper Nilbog said:Haven't tried Gorn yet, but with the mods to initative and lumbering, i can see Gorns having issues with bringing full salvo's to bare against Klingons, and the shield rule with half the effect of Plasma's. If a Gorn can get close - it WILL bring the pain, but it's got to get close first (can see Gorn fleets running a fair few frigates, though there not as weak as they may seem - 7AD plasma + 3 Ph-1)
As for phasers as anti-drone, we'd be using them to reduce Plasma's, and we now have a few 'tractors' to play with which we don't vs plasma (still think the hull need a slight boost - reduction in crippled level. But from games played, when crippled it's generally game over unless out of the furball)
While the Romulans don't have the minus to Initiative, nor are most their ships lumbering, moving in cloak is not exactly high speed nor does it allow for pursuing an enemy fleet moving normally.
starbreaker
Mongoose
Totenkopf said:While the Romulans don't have the minus to Initiative, nor are most their ships lumbering, moving in cloak is not exactly high speed nor does it allow for pursuing an enemy fleet moving normally.
The sudden repositioning when they decloak helps a bit with that - but yeah, it won't do the job on an enemy who's trying to play keep-away.
Sgt_G said:They don't have to cloak. I can understand the old Eagle ships needing cloaks, but the Hawks can be flown without ever cloaking once. I've done in it SFB and won against both Gorn and Feds.
But what about against Kzinti and Klingons? The drones might be an incentive to keep even those Hawks cloaked.
The romulan version of the Klingon frigate has anti-drone which would be handy against them - although I guess this may be an error as the larger Klingon hulls don't retain that trait..........
Also terrain is likely to be very useful for a number of the races listed - its a big part of ACTA, using terrain correctly.
Also terrain is likely to be very useful for a number of the races listed - its a big part of ACTA, using terrain correctly.
And this isn't SFB. :wink:Sgt_G said:They don't have to cloak. I can understand the old Eagle ships needing cloaks, but the Hawks can be flown without ever cloaking once. I've done in it SFB and won against both Gorn and Feds.
The end results of numerous batles will produce statistically similar results; but a single game of ACTA: SF is not a game of SFB. Differnt rules require differnet tactics.
It's similar tothe differences between SFB and Fed Comm. The ships are nearly the same, the rules are nearlythe same, but the game is different.
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