Picts as characters?

Faraer said:
Darkspawn said:
If it is like a standard REH story written in the (unfortunately) racist 1930's, then neither Picts nor Darfari are going to be ok as PCs. Unless the entire group is going to be one of those races. A campaign set on Picts trying to get "their" land back from the encroaching settlers would be interesting. Both of these races were pretty much "bad guys" by the time of Conan.
You're really underestimating REH there: while Picts are antagonists from the point of view of the Hyborians, and in the few Conan stories where they appear, overall Bob was very much in sympathy with the Picts and they're strong protagonists in the Bran Mak Morn stories.
As you can see in the last sentence in the section you quoted, I wasn't talking about the Picts during the Bran Mak Morn stories, only as they appeared during the times of Conan. Conan never sat down and discussed things with the Picts in any of the stories I read. Conan may have empathized with them about their territory being taken over, but he still fought them just as hard as the other colonists and referred to them as "devils".
While I haven't read them, I have seen a recent series of books that are written about a small group of Picts trying to recover some magic item so they can try to fend off King Conan. That might make an interesting mini campaign with all the players as Picts.
I simply don't see other races trusting a Pict enough to form a lasting friendship with one.
 
What I'm saying is that Picts aren't inherently antagonists 'during the times of Conan', only in those particular stories, because (a) they're settlers vs Indians stories and (b) Cimmerians are also enemies of the Picts. Picts would certainly be out of place in Hyborian society and have trouble getting on with non-Picts, but (at least east of Aquilonia and Zingara) only more so than Cimmerians by a matter of degree. Conan is very much not a typical Cimmerian, and a Pict PC could be likewise. And there's a strong premium on having Pict PCs because they're one of a finite number of barbarian races you can use for the centrally important 'barbarism vs civilization' theme.
 
Darkspawn said:
I simply don't see other races trusting a Pict enough to form a lasting friendship with one.
In Aquilonia, and especially Westermarck/Bossonia, things might be tough, but I dont really see why Picts would necessarily have such a bad reputation in other Hyborian kingdoms (shouldn't be much worse off than other barbarian races).
 
I simply don't see other races trusting a Pict enough to form a lasting friendship with one.

Why? The Darfari are cannibal cultists. The Picts are just savages. The Aquilonians hate them because of their long war, the Cimmerians hate them because of their even longer war, and no one else in the entire world gives a fig. If they've even heard of them. Conan fights them because the Aquilonians are paying him to. If the Picts had currency and could offer more, he'd be fighting for them.
 
I think you're right. There is a big diff between uncouth, jungle-haunting, painted, tattooed savages who want to ravish borderers' wives and take scalps, and savages who only want to have a wee nibble. :D
If a Hyrkanian or Khitan PC were to be told for the first time about Picts from the distant Western Coasts, his response would be "Huh? What are Picts? Who cares!?" It's always relative to one's nationality, origins.
 
I am saying that it should be a very difficult race to play, based on other race's reactions to the player. If you'll read REH's The Hyborian Age in the back of the book, you'll notice that in several places Picts are noted as being very savage and resisted contact with the Hyborian nations.
A priest of Mitra named Arus was allowed to stay with a tribe of Picts which was unusual because most non-Picts were butchered for their teeth. It was a case unique in the history of the race. But the chief named Gorm wanted information from this priest so he allowed him to live.
When the Picts under this same Gorm attacked Aquilonia while she was in the midst of trying to conquer some surrounding neighbors, they destroyed the empire and also conquered Vanaheim, Zingara, all of Aquilonia except Gunderland; Argos, Ophir, the western part of Koth, and the western part of Shem.
So at one time they controlled a vast empire and it is not fair to say that nobody outside of Aquilonia gives a fig about them.
But I guess each gamemaster can have a different history of their game. I am too dumb to come up with a cooler history than REH's so I am using his for the most part. :)
 
Darkspawn said:
So at one time they controlled a vast empire and it is not fair to say that nobody outside of Aquilonia gives a fig about them.
Yes, but Gorms invasion takes place after the age of King Conan (most likely 500 years after, but thats a bit vague). If your running a game after the pictish invasions, then I'll agree that many people will have a negative view of the pictish invaders. Before that time they were confined to the pictish wilderness and I don't think many people would know much about them except for their neighbouring countries.
 
I am saying that it should be a very difficult race to play, based on other race's reactions to the player.

Indeed. And I'm saying, no more so than any other Barbarian race.

If you'll read REH's The Hyborian Age in the back of the book, you'll notice that in several places Picts are noted as being very savage and resisted contact with the Hyborian nations.

Which is very annoying for the Hyborian nation that borders them, and a total non problem for everyone else. Not to mention the fact that the same can be said of the Cimmerians, but Conan has few problems. Even in Aquilonia itself.

When the Picts under this same Gorm attacked Aquilonia while she was in the midst of trying to conquer some surrounding neighbors, they destroyed the empire and also conquered Vanaheim, Zingara, all of Aquilonia except Gunderland; Argos, Ophir, the western part of Koth, and the western part of Shem.
So at one time they controlled a vast empire and it is not fair to say that nobody outside of Aquilonia gives a fig about them.

As Trodax has pointed out, this fact may concern the occasional seer or prophet, but the man in the street will not be bothered by events in the future.
 
My mistake, the period of Gorm is indeed 500 years after the period of Conan.
Players should be allowed to take Picts at will, since no one will even recognize a Pict for what he is, much less care that the Pict is actually a blood-thirsty savage that looks at people's teeth to see if they will fit in his collection.
Cimmerians are barbarians, but they don't kill people for their teeth; Picts do. While I got the dates mixed up, REH's history still indicates that Picts and other peoples never mixed well.
Let's imagine a Pict character with a mixed group of other races; including a Darfar. The group is attacked by a group of bandits, defeat them, and while the Cimmerian barbarian is taking weapons as trophies; the Zingaran thief is taking money belts as trophies; the Khitan scholar is taking spell component pouches and books as trophies; and the Hyrkanian nomad is taking horses as trophies. In the middle of all this, the Pict barbarian is cracking jawbones apart to get some teeth (which culturally he is trained to do, and it would be odd if he didn't, especially if he was a shaman and needed the teeth as a spell component or something) and the Darfar barbarian-chef is looking at the jaw cracking and saying "hey, save that bone marrow for me, it will make a great ingredient in the nice bandit-beef stew I am going to make".
The group that I am running would immediately try to make the Pict stop what he was doing, since it would be grossing them out too much. And if he didn't stop, I know that the two Zingarans in the group would wait until he was asleep and make sure that the tooth collector was gathering them in a more, shall we say, spiritual place.
What I am trying to point out is this: it is not the perceptions of other races would preclude the ability of players to take a Pict in a mixed race group, it will be the habits and activities of the Pict afterwards. Picts kill people for their body parts; Cimmerians, Aesir, Nordhiemers, and most of the other barbarian races don't do that as a rule. Conan hacked more heads off than anybody. But I have never read that he collected them and hung them around his neck. Picts do that with the teeth of their fallen foes. And, looking at it from the Pict's point of view, rightfully so. A player should have to explain in a convincing manner why his character won't take the teeth of his fallen foes.
I am sure the Picts do it for various reasons, including if the foe was a particularly strong foe. They might think that the teeth will convey the strength of the foe to their new owner. And it might, if the Pict is a shaman and can cast some sort of spell using the teeth as a component.
I believe truly that a mixed race party that doesn't know anything about Picts as a culture could embrace and maybe even grow fond of a Pict. Until that first culture clash. And that clash would be very loud. The sound of jawbones cracking.
 
There's plenty of ways to have a Pict character work within Hyboria. The character could've been a child who escaped with his mother to Aquilonia because his mother fell in love with a Aquilonian soldier. Thus, he grew up in Aquilonia or some other land.

Or as a young man the pict was captured by Aquilonians and sentenced to prison in Tarantia and he escaped - or helped track down a murder who had escaped into Cimmeria so earned his freedom. Or he had a chance to escape and instead helped repel the attackers so he earned a spot within the Aquilonian army.

When he escaped prison he found employ within a mercenary unit who was traveling to Turan - not wanting to return to Pictdom in shame he joins up.

The character would have to learn about civilization just like Conan did and that would make for some real good roleplaying moments that could liven up a session or two.

That's how I see it - if one of the players wants to be a Pict then i say let him. Just make him come up with a backstory if the adventure takes place outside the Pictish Wilderness.
 
Strom said:
There's plenty of ways to have a Pict character work within Hyboria. The character could've been a child who escaped with his mother to Aquilonia because his mother fell in love with a Aquilonian soldier. Thus, he grew up in Aquilonia or some other land.

Or as a young man the pict was captured by Aquilonians and sentenced to prison in Tarantia and he escaped - or helped track down a murder who had escaped into Cimmeria so earned his freedom. Or he had a chance to escape and instead helped repel the attackers so he earned a spot within the Aquilonian army.

When he escaped prison he found employ within a mercenary unit who was traveling to Turan - not wanting to return to Pictdom in shame he joins up.

The character would have to learn about civilization just like Conan did and that would make for some real good roleplaying moments that could liven up a session or two.

That's how I see it - if one of the players wants to be a Pict then i say let him. Just make him come up with a backstory if the adventure takes place outside the Pictish Wilderness.

I totally agree, if a player really wants to be a Pict, then let him. Just make him play as a Pict, not as a Cimmerian or other barbarian race. Otherwise he should play as the other barbarian race. Then let the group decide if they really want this noble savage who is really savage to be a part of the group.
Allowing player Picts will have the same problems as allowing virgin-sacrificing, demon-summoning, Set worshipping priests be used by players. Allow another player to bring in a beautiful Mitra loving virgin with the Set worshipper. Why not, if you are going to allow a Pict in with some of the above explanations. None of them fit the race much.
Picts and Darfar should only be used as NPC villains. That's just my view on it. Everybody else has a different view, and that's what makes this a nice, free forum. We can all have a say and it can be an equal say so long as we remain civilised. Pun intended.
 
It seems to me that there are 2 issues that you are combining into one .

A: your group wouldn't like it - that's fine . Each group has to decide what it will put up with . My players would (and have) kill a "Scholar " as soon as possible, because they all believe that sorcery sooner or later becomes a pact with demons and it's better to dispose of it when's it easy .

B: Cultural bias: History is full of peoples that took(and some still do) body parts as trophies and are tolerated outside their own territories.
The Roman use of Gallic mercs(headhunters).
The Thracians and Scythians .
Both sides in the French & Indian war , American revolution and War of 1812. American militia men skinned Tecumseh and made leggings out of him(evidence hints that it may not have actually been Tecumseh)
The Sarawak also collected body parts .
This was all done while in the employ of "civilized " peoples .
On a more modern level my uncle was a mercenary in Africa during the 60's & 70's and I know that he and others collected ears from their foes.
Mostly bodyparting (I like that expression) was/is done to gather an advantage (intimidation of foe, Karma, etc..)
However once the usefulness of the group was over .......

The point of this is that I don't see a problem with a Pict as a PC as long as they play it well , no more than I see a problem with a PC being a Scholar of the more morally ambiguous type.
 
Darkspawn said:
None of them fit the race much.

Conan didn't fit his race much as far as stereotypes and this is the Conan RPG. Seems like a perfect fit. The whole point of creating characters is that they are meant for greatness - a cut above the regular Picts, Aquilonians, Cimmerians etc. as evidenced by fate points. So, having a character that doesn't fit the stereotypes - who pushes the boundaries of established and suggested racial traits fits especially well within the sword & sorcery genre and thus the Conan RPG. Not saying there should be a ton o' picts in Tarantia but to think there are none seems unrealistic considering all the other races present in other countries in many of the Conan stories.
 
Ok so the general consensus by all the upper class guys here is that anything goes as far as races go.
Anything? Picts, Darfar, whatever?
 
I would also like to make a comment that I think that folks should really not allow any kind of personal information about barbarism be viewed here. We are talking about what happens in a role-playing game. I don't feel that it is advantageous to relay personal information about what we or anyone we may have known has done to another human being either in wartime or peacetime.
I sincerely apologize if I may have offended anyone by my comments regarding either cannibalism or the taking of human body parts as "trophies". It was not my intention to degrade any particular culture in any fashion, nor to make light of anything anyone else might have gone through.
Nor is it my intention now to personally attack anyone at this time.
While I am certainly not a moderator on this or any forum, (I ain't smart enuff) I feel like we should moderate ourselves when it comes to these things.
I feel that we should keep any personal things personal.
 
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