Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Pharmacist mate, or anesthesiologist?
One commands a rather higher salary.
One commands a rather higher salary.
Passenger Staterooms: Single Travellers vs Couples
- Thread starter Terry Mixon
- Start date
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Robot medics.
Sexy robot medics.
Otherwise, what even is the point!?!?
(Actually robot carers make a LOT of sense if the passengers are still conscious during flight time. They can interact with the passengers by moving and talking veeeeeeery sloooooowlyyy... while still being aware of what's happening in regular time...)
"SU-Z, can I have a water please?"
(SU-Z appears to flicker, and a cup of water appears in their hand)
"Here you go, Mrs Brown"
"Thank you"
Otherwise, what even is the point!?!?
(Actually robot carers make a LOT of sense if the passengers are still conscious during flight time. They can interact with the passengers by moving and talking veeeeeeery sloooooowlyyy... while still being aware of what's happening in regular time...)
"SU-Z, can I have a water please?"
(SU-Z appears to flicker, and a cup of water appears in their hand)
"Here you go, Mrs Brown"
"Thank you"
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Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Not under MGT2. The CRB mentions the proportional time passage (1 day = 2 month) but dispenses with the somewhat arbitrary fixed duration. You administer the drug and it works until you administer the antidote (which costs the same as the drug).
If I recall correctly this was different in other versions of the rules (where a dose lasted a specific period of time) but I see no play advantage to make it more complicated than that. It also means all the autoinjectors in suits and autodocs just work without having to define specific dosages.
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Whilst your metabolism is slowed, the world around you isn't. If someone pushes you over for example, you are going to hit the ground with no ability to react or break your fall. You can't walk (not even in cinematic slow motion) as each step is controlled unbalancing and your reactions are 60 times slower than they need to be.
That means not leaving that acceleration seat and eating and drinking are also probably out of the question as you would likely choke. As the entire 2 week trip is less than 6 hours, eating and drinking is likely to be unnecessary. It is probably better if passengers are actually asleep (so benches are probably not enough) as they would probably need turning to avoid bed sores etc. and that might be very disorienting experiencing it at 60 times subjective speed. Combining Fast with a sedative is probably prudent.
Those are probably the reasons that Fast is not ubiquitous. The experience is probably really weird. The space requirements make it less attractive than Low Passage for captains as the cost of the drug plus antidote (Cr200 each) is almost as much as life support for basic passage and far more than for Low plus the added disadvantage of having to load walking passengers and then dose them all up. From a passenger standpoint you are no less vulnerable than a low passenger (you could be sold off to slavers and transferred before you even had time to register surprise) and the trip is just as tedious. Once under the influence of Fast, the less reputable captains will probably treat you no better than cargo.
The benches are described as heavily padded with secure restraints. I'm good for those to be appropriate for sedated customers.
"Comfort is limited but safety remains paramount."
But sure. Let's go with the even comfier acceleration seats, probably specifically designed for a prone passenger, and compare them with standard low berths.
Drug Passage, 0.5 tons per passenger Cr30,000 capital cost. Per trip, Cr400 for drug and antidote, plus per maintenance period 1/60th of normal Cr1,000 per passenger life support usage, or Cr17. Let's say Cr100 for a sedative. Attendance by low level Medic staff required; Medic-0 would possibly be enough, Medic-1 definitely would. Maybe use the Steward staffing rules as if they were Medium passengers, so that Medic-0 can serve 10 Drug Passengers, and Medic-1 can manage 100. No normal chance of death or injury. No power requirements.
Low passage, 0.5 tons per passenger, Cr50,000 capital cost, Per maintenance period Cr100. Revival by a skilled Medic required to avoid passenger death and injury. 1 power point per 10 Low Berths.
Clearly there are higher costs per passenger for Drug Passage, but that should just be a matter of pricing. Basic Passage is still 2 tons per passenger, with Cr1500 per maintenance period per person in life support. Drug or Low passengers quadruple that capacity, eight times compared to Middle. High Passengers require a ton of regular cargo, but are still the most profitable passengers per ton per jump.
I did a quick check, and assuming 0.5 ton per Drug Passenger and similar medical crew costs (I went with one Medic-1 per 100 passengers), the break point where Drug Passage profit is the same as Low Passage is Cr1150 for J-1. Price it above or below that as you see fit. Either are going to be more profitable than Basic passage using otherwise unoccupied staterooms, but less profitable than Middle or High on a per ton per trip basis.
"Comfort is limited but safety remains paramount."
But sure. Let's go with the even comfier acceleration seats, probably specifically designed for a prone passenger, and compare them with standard low berths.
Drug Passage, 0.5 tons per passenger Cr30,000 capital cost. Per trip, Cr400 for drug and antidote, plus per maintenance period 1/60th of normal Cr1,000 per passenger life support usage, or Cr17. Let's say Cr100 for a sedative. Attendance by low level Medic staff required; Medic-0 would possibly be enough, Medic-1 definitely would. Maybe use the Steward staffing rules as if they were Medium passengers, so that Medic-0 can serve 10 Drug Passengers, and Medic-1 can manage 100. No normal chance of death or injury. No power requirements.
Low passage, 0.5 tons per passenger, Cr50,000 capital cost, Per maintenance period Cr100. Revival by a skilled Medic required to avoid passenger death and injury. 1 power point per 10 Low Berths.
Clearly there are higher costs per passenger for Drug Passage, but that should just be a matter of pricing. Basic Passage is still 2 tons per passenger, with Cr1500 per maintenance period per person in life support. Drug or Low passengers quadruple that capacity, eight times compared to Middle. High Passengers require a ton of regular cargo, but are still the most profitable passengers per ton per jump.
I did a quick check, and assuming 0.5 ton per Drug Passenger and similar medical crew costs (I went with one Medic-1 per 100 passengers), the break point where Drug Passage profit is the same as Low Passage is Cr1150 for J-1. Price it above or below that as you see fit. Either are going to be more profitable than Basic passage using otherwise unoccupied staterooms, but less profitable than Middle or High on a per ton per trip basis.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Didn't they drop basic passage in 2e?
Also, on a larger (much larger?) ship, Middle passage comes in more profitable for me.
Okay, I've made variants of an obnoxiously large J6 liner I modeled on cruise ships. My initial one was aimed at the High Passage market, but now there are variants for Luxury and Middle passengers. The liner is 250,000-tons, so, like I said, ridiculous but I like building ships. 
Imagine them tootling around the Core sector.
I left them with mostly the same amenities but added more for the luxury version as the details will show. I bumped the ships to only a five-day layover and made them purchase unrefined fuel to process.
As you'll see, each level of passage drops the profit margin...
Imagine them tootling around the Core sector.I left them with mostly the same amenities but added more for the luxury version as the details will show. I bumped the ships to only a five-day layover and made them purchase unrefined fuel to process.
As you'll see, each level of passage drops the profit margin...
Basic is still there, but unless there's not enough Middle Passengers to fill the staterooms, it's not attractive, no. On a strict per ton per jump basis, freight is better, so generally the option to convert unused cargo area to steerage also doesn't pan out, unless there's no freight and a whole bunch of refugees or something.
I guess if you crap out on the available freight and better grade passenger rolls it might happen, especially in a low population backwater.
Passengers also have +1 for an Amber Zone and freight has a -2, with a -1 for TL6 or less that passenger rolls do not have. So potentially you might have a bunch of people wanting to pay Basic passage but a half empty hold just by virtue of being at a low tech Amber zone port.
I guess if you crap out on the available freight and better grade passenger rolls it might happen, especially in a low population backwater.
Passengers also have +1 for an Amber Zone and freight has a -2, with a -1 for TL6 or less that passenger rolls do not have. So potentially you might have a bunch of people wanting to pay Basic passage but a half empty hold just by virtue of being at a low tech Amber zone port.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
All in one class.
Depends on how you do basic. 2 basics sharing a std berth isn't as profitable as getting a solo in middle berth but that is only one way of getting basic. Barracks can be used for basic and is 1 ton per passenger. Cargo space can be used for basic*. Of course you are still having to pay out Cr500 per passenger per jump regardless of how you stack them. Barracks cost an additional Cr250 for the 1 ton of barracks. Staterooms cost an extra Cr1000 (which seems independent of the number of occupants). You could be a git and shove 12 people into a 4 Dton Brig and only have Cr1000 in additional life support costs for the lot of them. If you want to be truly barbaric you can fit 20 people into a 10 ton stable and only pay Cr2500 additional life support for them. Convincing them to pay you for the "privilege" is another matter but refugees or those fleeing the law might be desperate enough.
I am ruling that the biospheres 2 persons free life support per ton is only the Cr1000 per passenger cost, you still need to pay any room costs, but that can significantly enhance profits and make even low grade accommodation more bearable and tipping the cargo vs passenger equation.
At this end of the market you are also asking for trouble as people desperate enough for that sort of passage just to get out of dodge are likely to be troublesome and possibly desperate enough to try to take over the ship once they have time to think about it. Better they be sedated or carried Low.
Under the singularity rule that each multiple occupant costs 50% extra, two passengers sharing middle would gross Cr9750. After life support costs that is Cr8250 per trip, which is a much more credible number. You can probably double bunk in barracks too, but it is getting pretty unsavoury by that point.
MixCorp low berths solve this challenge with 3 well behaved popsicles per Dton at Cr700 per. Well above cargo rates even with Cr100 per passenger life support off the top.
*According to the Tradesman's Gig in the Small Craft book it looks like cabin space can be used as accommodation (it shows a bed) so I was wrong in my earlier post (maybe). Thinking about it, if 1 DTon barracks is enough space for basic passenger then 1.5 Dton should be enough to cover Basic as well. I find cabin space confusing as I am not quite sure what level of accommodation it provides and its benefit over barracks, unless this is a condition for multiple occupancy of a stateroom e.g. by having 4 Dton for the stateroom and 3 Dton attached cabin space you can accommodate 3 passengers per stateroom without them going batshit and get double the fee for marginally less than double the tonnage.
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I was wondering how far you could multi-occupancy and I would expect that the more that occupy the higher the stress level. Also how many can share High passage before it becomes sleazy. Then I looked at the passenger table for Singularity. I can easily image the degenerate Baron D'Purv sharing his stateroom with three other "companions" who never leave the room. The 150% surcharge would cover the extra Cr1500 personal life support and leave a sizeable surplus that might pay for enough detergent to wash the shame from the room.
The limit will not be the number the captain thinks he can fit, but the number the passengers are willing to tolerate in the name of decency. A young family might be perfectly happy to share a stateroom but would need extra common areas to "spread out" and deconflict. Perhaps the usual 1 ton per stateroom should be 1 ton per passenger (since the assumption is single occupancy). The family of 4 would need 8 Dtons (stateroom plus commons) rather than the 5 DTons a single occupant would. This doesn't seem unreasonable.
The limit will not be the number the captain thinks he can fit, but the number the passengers are willing to tolerate in the name of decency. A young family might be perfectly happy to share a stateroom but would need extra common areas to "spread out" and deconflict. Perhaps the usual 1 ton per stateroom should be 1 ton per passenger (since the assumption is single occupancy). The family of 4 would need 8 Dtons (stateroom plus commons) rather than the 5 DTons a single occupant would. This doesn't seem unreasonable.
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Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
I was eventually working up to Stables and Biospheres.
But whereas it's ambiguous about the other accommodations requiring the kilostarbux per human passenger in addition to the requisite per tonne life support costs, with these two it's not.
Since:
Every ton dedicated to a biosphere eliminates life support costs for two passengers.
Stables come with their own air scrubbers and waste-collectors, avoiding the need to tax the existing life support systems of the ship.
But whereas it's ambiguous about the other accommodations requiring the kilostarbux per human passenger in addition to the requisite per tonne life support costs, with these two it's not.
Since:
Every ton dedicated to a biosphere eliminates life support costs for two passengers.
Stables come with their own air scrubbers and waste-collectors, avoiding the need to tax the existing life support systems of the ship.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Of course, still no idea how much life support costs per cow installed in a stateroom.
Besides the mandatory kilostarbux per stateroom.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I like this idea.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Having considered this a hot minute, I not only like the idea of common area per person, but think that it needs to go up with passenger quality. The High passengers will want more, and as their stateroom is 1.5 times the size of a middle, they deserve 1.5 tons of common area per person. The Luxury passengers have a stateroom that is 2.5 times bigger than a middle, so they deserve 2.5 tons of common area per person. At least that is what they would demand.
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
Count gourmet dining, theaters, hot tubs and pools in that number.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Yep.
The baseline remains C1000 per ton, the profit you get on freight.
High and Middle passengers end up being more profitable after costs, Basic passengers end up being less profitable than freight after costs*. But if you have unused berths, Basic Passengers are a way to get some profit out of the room.
(*Each Basic passenger requires two tons, either half a stateroom or two tons of converted cargo space. They require Cr1000 per maintenance period in life support, so Cr500 per trip. Cr2000-C500 is a profit of Cr1500 per two tons per trip... but Freight is a profit of Cr2000 per two tons.)
High and Middle passengers end up being more profitable after costs, Basic passengers end up being less profitable than freight after costs*. But if you have unused berths, Basic Passengers are a way to get some profit out of the room.
(*Each Basic passenger requires two tons, either half a stateroom or two tons of converted cargo space. They require Cr1000 per maintenance period in life support, so Cr500 per trip. Cr2000-C500 is a profit of Cr1500 per two tons per trip... but Freight is a profit of Cr2000 per two tons.)
While Barracks are stated as being able to be used for Basic passage, it's an installed item that costs Cr50,000 per ton and can't be used for anything else. It'll take a while you get back your investment over just using spare cargo space and empty staterooms.
A ship designed for mass population transfer (maybe an actual troop ship turned steerage liner?) is where you'd see it.
A ship designed for mass population transfer (maybe an actual troop ship turned steerage liner?) is where you'd see it.
