Over powered character in group

[Mage]

Hello fellow Forumites,

I am GMing a game of Mongoose Runequest 1 (figure this is the most appropriate place to post it), and one of the players, in a group of seasoned adventureres (that is one tier up from starting) has become a little bit too powerful in melee. With a Greatsword, he does 2d8+d4 on the charge, with another d6 or so on top of that with his substantial damage bonus. His strike rank is quite high.

While this is great in a tough melee, other players become spectators. It becomes their turn and there is nothing left to deal with.

I am not one for nerfing players, and it is great to have a character you really enjoy playing, but I am not quite sure how to grasp or tackle this issue.

Any help or input would be appreciated.

 

[Lemnoc]

One suggestion might be to shift your rules into a newer version, as I believe there are some better balancing mechanics therein.

Do other players have gifts that a refocus of campaign emphasis might bring into play? If this player is dominating melee, perhaps you can construct different kinds of challenges and combat. If the guy has a big SIZ, send them underground for a while. His greatsword will be a liability there.

A warrior that great might be building a Reputation. At its most benign, perhaps this means greater duties or sacrifice demanded from his cult or association. Perhaps he gains an acolyte he must train and mentor in battle. At its more malevolent, perhaps he comes to the attention of some powerful association.

I would tend to build on the positive, grant him special honors, recognize his gifts, as you don’t want the player thinking you’re targeting him for harm just because he’s good.

 

[Mage]

While I appreciate the recommendation, I am firmly sticking with MRQ1 as I have all the books and we are fond of the system.

With regard focus, two games ago was melee heavy, and I am going to focus more on adventuring, character interaction, journeys, quests, puzzle solving and investigation for the next few games.

I like the tunnel suggestion. I also like the Acolyte idea, which is quite cleaver, thank you! He is part of a Knightly Order cult, so an Acolyte trainee would be good, I think I will go with that, and throw the tunnel in at some point.

 

[Mage]

Sorry to double post, but in a previous game, there were a lot of daemons attacking a city which the players defended. Said Tank character slew many of them, and I was thinking what if his sword became contaminated or cursed? I didn't let on what I was thinking, and made him roll a d100, to see if something happened to the blade. He rolled a 73. I am still not sure if I should go ahead with this concept or not, nor what the roll should mean. It's high, but not too high.

 

[Lemnoc]

I also like the Acolyte idea, which is quite cleaver, thank you! He is part of a Knightly Order cult, so an Acolyte trainee would be good, I think I will go with that, and throw the tunnel in at some point.

Every dark knight needs a Robin! :wink:

 

[Mage]

Hah, i like it. Hmmm.... Name them Robin...

 

[Dan True]

Sorry to double post, but in a previous game, there were a lot of daemons attacking a city which the players defended. Said Tank character slew many of them, and I was thinking what if his sword became contaminated or cursed? I didn't let on what I was thinking, and made him roll a d100, to see if something happened to the blade. He rolled a 73. I am still not sure if I should go ahead with this concept or not, nor what the roll should mean. It's high, but not too high.

Great idea. Especially if his character mercilessly charges and slaughters everyone in a melee, you can quickly build that into a story where his actions can lead him down the wrong path.

Other than that, a good idea is to focus more on other kinds of problems for them to solve. Also, try to force some humility and fear of death into him again - perhaps they get caught in the open below a balcony with a group of archers? Let them be ambushed in the halls of a lord (his advisor dislikes them) or a prison / temple, where they were required to leave their weapons outside.
Let some enemies they fight use poison against him, so that he learns to fear even a dart or dagger. The tunnel or narrow corridor or stair was also a good suggestion.

Throw in some opponents where brute strength doesn't simply do it. Sadly throwing more armour on opponents doesn't work, as the others just become even more spectators.

- Dan

 

[Lemnoc]

The problem with throwing trickier kinds of combat at the party to get at this character is that it also tends to punish the party, who sound like a reasonable group. I do think if he is headstrong and rushes in before others, a few traps or tricks or ruined opportunities could take him down a peg, as Dan says.

if he carries extra SIZ, that carries certain obvious penalties. As does extra POW in campaigns with common sorts of magic, where he gleams a little more brightly to magical enemies.

But it really sounds like you just need to figure out a way to shave a CA off this character. Giving him a dependent might work, particularly a talented one worth keeping around.

I’d be cautious about throwing evils at him just because he’s good. A cursed sword is that kind of mechanic, but could be fun for a little while. Something that slows his Movement (Charge) without necessarily harming his battle prowess could yield some benefit.

 

[alex_greene]

Make it personal. The villains will not fight your ubercharacter, because their beef is with one of the other player characters. Maybe the other guy owes the challenger money or something.

If the big guy tries to shine something on, have the challenger cast Attract Harm (Greatsword) on the overachiever and then watch him beat himself half to death with his own suddenly uncontrollable weapon.

 

[Hopeless]

If this is RQ1 what armour is he wearing?

Nothing to stop a foe either poisoning or have a foe curse him as they die and have the curse be centred around the sword rather than the player eventually revealing the sword is possessed by the spirit(s) of his slain foes.

Daemons by the way might actually cause that sword to become sentient, now imagine if they find themselves dog tired because when they fall asleep the sword takes over...

 

[soltakss]

If someone is using a greatsword in combat then they should be seen as being dangerous. NPCs should concentrate on him, possibly attacking him with 2 or 3 NPCs at a time.

Attacking from cover, in tight spaces or from surprise minimises a single expert to some extent.

If the NPCs have missile users, why don't they shoot at the dangerous greatsword-wielder? Missiles are a great leveller in Legend.

Alternatively, let him enjoy himself. If he enjoys combat and enjoys taking the lead then why deprive him of that joy? If someone else wants to do the same then let them help out. Is he good at all skills? Probably not. Other people would be good at other things. Normally, you have a tradey/speaky person, a fighting person, perhaps a missile person, a magic person, someone good at making things and disarming things and so on. I know that Legend has the idea that everyone can do everything, but in practice, PCs tend to specialise. Have scenarios that don't all rely on combat. Have a lot of discussion, negotiation, trading, spotting, translating and so on.

 

[Lemnoc]

Alternatively, let him enjoy himself. If he enjoys combat and enjoys taking the lead then why deprive him of that joy?

This was kind of my thought. Although it sounds like extra CAs and a generous Strike Rank are allowing this character to cuisinart foes early and often while other players sit around and gape. So shave off a CA somehow or hamstring him so he's less mobile. My guess is he'd still be gloriously formidable and have a blast.

EDIT: Would it be outside the realm of logic, I wonder, to HR it so that huge and heavy weapons like a greatsword takes a little extra time to ready after a swing... in the same way Ranged Weapons take time to reload. I'm just trying to think of some mechanical way to shave down that CA.

 

[Mage]

@ Lemnoc

Yes it is MRQ 1, but I cannot recall of the top of my head the armour he wears.

A curse might be another option. My reasoning with the daemons he killed was along the lines of what you mention, as he did kill a fair few, and has killed a disproportionately high amount of enemies and monsters compared to all the other characters in the party.


@ soltakass

I didn’t think of that to be honest, that is solid reasoning. I guess I’m not inclined to think that way as I was in games in the pass where the GM meta-gamed quite a lot.

I think someone mentioned a tight space earlier like a tunnel.

The bowfire idea is good, a variation of him being ganged up on.

I have no problems with players enjoying themselves, but this is problematic and one player said it to me in confidence that it has unbalanced the game a bit, and I am inclined to believe them. Besides, it could detract from the role playing experience overall: challenges become something that the greatsword wielding knight are thrown at and get dispatched in a few strikes, and danger in the game becomes less believable, the world less immersive for the players. We have had about five or six sessions, so its not like I jumped on something without thinking about it, I’ve had time to ponder on it.

The next scenario I am doing will not rely on combat for the reasons you mentioned, and I have outlined them in an above post.


@ Lemnoc

Again, I don’t want to dampen people having fun, just make the game more balanced and challenging, with no ‘auto-win button’.


Overall, the consensus from you guys seems to be (thanks for all the input by the way!):

Don’t nerf the character
Let him have fun
Throw him a curveball in combat every now and then
Do a session where he is a little out of his comfort zone (less combat)


I am doing a few less combat orientated games but still going to give him a chance to shine in other ways. I might attach an apprentice to him and I will throw the odd difficult situation at him in combat (slow down spell, ambush with bows, etc).

Is anyone thinking the daemon corrupted sword a way to go?

 

[Lemnoc]

Is anyone thinking the daemon corrupted sword a way to go?

You've set that up nicely. I'd say go with it, have fun.

If the character realizes the sword is causing problems, can he toss it away for another? In which case, you're back to Go. Could be fun to give it a cursed / blessed aspect like Stormbringer, so that even though it is causing your knight pain he is loath to part with it. Maybe it adds +20% to his parry but also accelerates Fatigue.

 

[Mage]

Is anyone thinking the daemon corrupted sword a way to go?

You've set that up nicely. I'd say go with it, have fun.

If the character realizes the sword is causing problems, can he toss it away for another? In which case, you're back to Go. Could be fun to give it a cursed / blessed aspect like Stormbringer, so that even though it is causing your knight pain he is loath to part with it. Maybe it adds +20% to his parry but also accelerates Fatigue.

I was wondering whether it would be too unfair or cruel and angle to go at. As he stands, he is a noble and knight. I would reason that it would be a family heirloom and he wouldn't just toss it aside like it were nothing as he is a holy warrior. Then again, players have a way of surprising GMs. If he were to do that, I would probably not give him a Hero point at the end of the session for RPing his character, but it wouldn't be a punishment in my eyes, per se.

If he does toss it, I am back to go, but I was thinking of doing something along the lines of Stormbringer. The idea was than when it was his turn to watch the camp at night, he would not be able to find his sword, and an old man in black robes would be sitting at the campfire, staring into the flames. When he turned around to face the PC, the sword hilt would be hanging from his neck on a chain, like some sort of cross. It might scare the PC a little, and make him think 'uh oh'. I wouldn't add to his parry or accelerating his fatigue, but I would do something along those lines. If he were to throw it away, maybe it would reappear with his stuff or in his tent/room like Stormbringer, and the only way to fix it would be to go on an adventure to an inconveniently located temple or something to cleanse it or destroy it.

Food for thought...

 

[Lemnoc]

What if the sword gave him Insight, but it was always insight—Cassandra style—into some horrible doom for his family and realm? He would come to rely on the insight but dread the result. Until he understands that only by removing the sword's curse can he avoid the doom.

That would be very in line with your daemon haunted world.

 

[Mage]

What if the sword gave him Insight, but it was always insight—Cassandra style—into some horrible doom for his family and realm? He would come to rely on the insight but dread the result. Until he understands that only by removing the sword's curse can he avoid the doom.

That would be very in line with your daemon haunted world.

Ah, well, a little campaign background: the nation that the players came from is kaput, big massive undead invasion and takeover. They are in a foreign land now, where it is safe for the time being. His famliy and brethren, along with most of the other NPCs, have been wiped out. Suffice to say he has had his fill of doom, and I don't think heaping on more would add to the game. The plot though is that there is an oncoming storm with more undead. Then again, plaguing him with visions might be fun. Bad ones.

 

[Halfbat]

Simon/Soltakss advice is sound - glad you picked up on it.

- There is regularly a power-figure in gaming groups, often focussed in the way you specify and the player likes and enjoys that, so nerfing him/his weapons will be a problem in the long term. Without knowing the details I couldn't say more, but such a PC is often vulnerable in other areas (no shield, perhaps vulnerable to surprise attacks, slow?). Good _groups_ make up for this by complementing each other but virtually always need overlapping skills. Sometimes they also boost such a figure through buff-spells or through working to keep opponents off him, making the apparently single-person-focussed combat into a group effort and less of a single-person issue.

- Very often such attack-based figures rush forward to engage an enemy _but_ leave the rest of the group behind, vulnerable. The key to most combat in Runequest, because it is gritty, is allowing your NPCs to be sneaky, too - they know that an isolated person is easy prey or once the main defender of a group is gone the rest may be easier. As a result, they will focus on the easiest, whether that's the isolated tank or the isolated group! Perhaps obviously, don't overguess/nerf the PC plans _during_ play but have the NPCs set up ambushes, surprises, traps and dead-ends beforehand (this also makes for a more interesting game, anyway). And it's worth remembering that a charge won't apply to everyone and every attack as, iirc, it needs space and may leave him vulnerable to attacks from the side as he charges forward.

- If the group becomes vulnerable, how is this going to impact the warrior's credibility? Once his peers find out that those he is supposed to protect are left vulnerable, perhaps suffering injury, the warrior's name will be mud and he'll be regarded as a fanatic, only suitable for Chaos-fighting.

- Perhaps think about how combat skills are compared. If dealing with a heroic/tribal mentality, once the noble has killed a few minions, the hero(es) of the tribe will be queueing up to deal with him - and they should be a whole lot tougher and more capable than the average bumpkin.

Late, perhaps, but hope it helps.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

One thing which limits tank playing is that GM is conservative with hero points. If players have too many hero points they tend to think that they are immortal, but when they have only few points then there's real risk of dying and even the biggest tank thinks twice before he tries to kill entire army of enemies.

In my own campaign great sword wielding warrior died recently, because he failed his perception test to detect the hiding enemies, charged right into ambush and ran out of his combat actions. Other characters were too far away to help before the enemies had killed him. If he had waited the others then it's likely that he would have survived, because in the end party left no enemy alive and everyone else survived. In fact those characters who have died in my campaign, all died because they underestimated the enemy and weren't careful enough. When characters fight as a team they usually do better than when the tank tries to be a hero and kill every enemy alone. As GM I encourage team play, because it's more fun and increases chances that player characters actually survive.

 

[alex_greene]

Curiously enough, in more than 30 years of roleplaying, I have never heard of a character going overpowered in skills such as Mechanisms, Culture, Sing, Play Instrument, Survival, Boating or Seduction. You'd have thought that someone might have tried minmaxing their Athletics, Sing, Dance, Play (Stringed Instrument), Culture, couple of Lores and Seduction to turn into a right Don Juan / Casanova, or even maximise Perception and Insight and turn into a real Sherlock Holmes type, but no ... right for the combat styles and magic, in that order, every time.