# OK so let me get this right

#### DasClay

##### Mongoose
ARmour Piercing: the book says
The entry in this column indicates the number added to the wielders strength modifier to determing the final armour piercing score of a successful blow and its effects on the opponets damage reduction.

Question:So this is added in with the attack, but is only relative if your facing someone who is actully in armor? or does this plus your atk modifers stack all together for one total damage.
I dont understand the example given on page 163(1st book). by the way it reads, is your weapon does its given damage, but you use your str mod. and AP value to see if you actully get thru the armor, and if you equal the AP value, your given DR score is halfed for that attack? so doesnt that conflict with the rule of everytime your hit your armor takes damage, and for every 20 points of damage your armor takes, its DR is reduced by 1 ?

Initiative: 1d20+Reflex save modifier+ dexterity modifier + any relevant feats or other bonuses(improved initiative,etc)

Question: so basically i can just save 1d20+ reflex save+ any relevant feats.

Armor Damage and Repair: each time a suit of armour is struck by a weapon that inflicts 20 points of damage or more to the character wearing the armour ( after the armour is taken into account) its DR is reduced by 1d4:

Question: so this is saying on a single attack if you take more than 20 points of damage(which you have to make a save for anyway), then your armour DR value is reduced by 1d4 points. this is not a cumulative thing were over time when your armor has taken 20 points of damage its reduced by 1, exsample im fighting 4 warriors DR 6 each attacks me and does 5 damage, i soak 20 then my DR drops to DR 5. that example is wrong then, right?

Example: Cutlass AP2, 1d10 weilded by a STR16(+3) character. If he hits, then the AP + STR mod are compared to Armor DR. In this case, the total is AP5, so DR 5 or better are not as effective. In that case the Armor DR is halved, rounding down. Damage is rolled (1d10+3 for STR) and the remaining DR is subtracted from the result.

Armor takes 1d4 points of damage if 20pts are inflicted after DR. So, in the above case, if the Cutlass weilder rolled a Crit (20 to hit followed by another hit to target DV) then he could amass 2d10+6 points. Say he maxed out and gets a 26. Well, the Armor DR5 being reduced to DR2 (half 5 rounded down) reduces that damage to 24 points, but that's enough to damage the armor. Also, it's enough to inflict Massive Damage. (q.v.) And, yes, armor damage is taken one blow at a time, not cumulatively.

Initiative: Yes.

Initiative = total Reflex save + Improved Initiative (if applicable)

I don't think so....

Initiative=Base reflex save modifier + Dexterity modifier + any relevant feats.

If it was total reflex save + other relevant feats, then feats like lightning reflexes would count, as they add to the reflex save.

IMO, lightning reflexes is not a relevant feat, as the description specifically states that it applies to all Reflex saving throws. Nothing about initiative.

I believe that Mongoose have confirmed that the wording is Base reflex modifier (ie from the class tables). Correct me if I'm wrong.

In RoK we see that NPCs did not add Lightening Ref into their Initiative scores.

In Pirate Isles, we see that they did.

Check this out in the Rulesmasters thread:

Interesting.
So does the Shemite '-1 to all saving throws' also subtract 1 from initiative?
It is a reflex modifier.

But Mongoose Bob also says that Lightning Reflexes does not help initiative here!....

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1174&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

Sorry! Went off too soon.
I read the rest of the thread and spotted the later ruling.

So. Do Shemite characters get -1 initiative?

Latest ruling = Yes.

DasClay said:
ARmour Piercing: the book says
The entry in this column indicates the number added to the wielders strength modifier to determing the final armour piercing score of a successful blow and its effects on the opponets damage reduction.

Question:So this is added in with the attack, but is only relative if your facing someone who is actully in armor? or does this plus your atk modifers stack all together for one total damage.
You are confused. AP and damage are two seperate things. You calculate AP based on the weapon used as follows: weapon AP + Str mod = total AP. If you are finesse fighting then you do not add your Str mod. If you are using a weapon to which you cannot add your Str mod to damage then you do not add your Str mod to AP (ie: a x-bow or non-mighty bow). If your weapon has AP 0 then you can never penetrate armor no matter how high your Str. Lastly, according to Mongoose Bob's most recent rulling for two handed weapons your ap = weapon AP + 1.5*Str mod.

You should calculate your AP values beforehand just like you would your attack values because it is a static number that will only change when you change weapons (or your Str value changes).

If your AP is equall to or greater than your opponent's DR then he only gets to apply one half his DR (rounded down) against your damage. You roll damage normally and do not add AP to damage.

I dont understand the example given on page 163(1st book). by the way it reads, is your weapon does its given damage, but you use your str mod. and AP value to see if you actully get thru the armor, and if you equal the AP value, your given DR score is halfed for that attack?
You refer to the example with Moyle and the Aesir warriors? That example is correct. If total AP >= DR then apply 1/2DR (round down) against the damage rolled, do not add AP to damage.

so doesnt that conflict with the rule of everytime your hit your armor takes damage, and for every 20 points of damage your armor takes, its DR is reduced by 1 ?
That is a variant rule, not core. See my answer to your qestion on Armor Damage below.

Initiative: 1d20+Reflex save modifier+ dexterity modifier + any relevant feats or other bonuses(improved initiative,etc)

Question: so basically i can just save 1d20+ reflex save+ any relevant feats.
Basically, yes. See Mongoose Bob's latest rulling in this thread Yes this means you include Lightning Reflexes in your initative save, no that is not unbalancing because there are fewer Ref saves in Conan than stock DnD. Yes this means Shemite's are slower than other characters, that must just be part of their fatalism I guess.

Armor Damage and Repair: each time a suit of armour is struck by a weapon that inflicts 20 points of damage or more to the character wearing the armour ( after the armour is taken into account) its DR is reduced by 1d4:

Question: so this is saying on a single attack if you take more than 20 points of damage(which you have to make a save for anyway), then your armour DR value is reduced by 1d4 points. this is not a cumulative thing were over time when your armor has taken 20 points of damage its reduced by 1, exsample im fighting 4 warriors DR 6 each attacks me and does 5 damage, i soak 20 then my DR drops to DR 5. that example is wrong then, right?
Yes, any time you would have to make a Massive Damage save your armor's DR is reduced by 1d4. Yes this is a cumulative thing so it is eventually possible to destroy armor in this way. No your armor does not loose 1 point of DR for every 20 points of damage you take in total, that is a variant rule.

Hope that helps.

I think, argo, that you still get to add your STRb to damage for Finesse weapons when generating the final damage. You use DEXb to hit with and AP doesnt' apply at all, but I don't think there's anything that says you wouldn't calculate STR bonus in with the Finessed damage.

Didn't know about the 1.5 STRb for AP purposes with two-handed weapons. Thanks.

I'm sure Argo knows that (about Str to damage I mean). He stated you roll damage normally, but it is always good to be as clear as possible.

Just to add: ". . . finesse fighters never damage armour when making their attack, even when they do not bypass it entirely."

So a finesse attack that forces a Massive Damage save does not cause damage to armour.

Shonuff said:
I'm sure Argo knows that (about Str to damage I mean). He stated you roll damage normally, but it is always good to be as clear as possible.

Just to add: ". . . finesse fighters never damage armour when making their attack, even when they do not bypass it entirely."

So a finesse attack that forces a Massive Damage save does not cause damage to armour.

I jsut didn't want to assume argo was slipping...

Good job noting that Finesse attacks never damage armor. That's in the Finesse rules and not the Armor Damage rules so I missed it at first myself. I think it should be able to damage armor (cutting straps and harnesses and ripping through support garments), but according to the rules it does not.

I wonder if anyone will house rule that a finesse attack that causes a Massive Damage save then causes a 1 point loss in the armour's DR value.

Therefore for MD saves:
Normal hit causes 1d4 points of DR loss to armour.
1 point of DR loss only for finesse attacks.

Just thinking out loud . . . or posting . . . out . . . loud? :wink:

Sutek said:
I think, argo, that you still get to add your STRb to damage for Finesse weapons when generating the final damage.
You are correct, I was referring to calculating AP but perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

You use DEXb to hit with and AP doesnt' apply at all,
Well, all the book says is that "Finesse fighters never add their Strength modifier to the Armor Piercing rating of their weapon." so that should mean that if your weapon's base AP alone penetrates then you can penetrate even while finesse fighting. But it's prety much a moot point however since most finesse weapons have a base AP of 0 or 1. Maybe if you had a war sword and the other guy was wearing a quilted jerkin.... :roll:

I guess that's why Finessing a War Sword is a good thing with it's AP3. Hmm...hadn't occured to me. Good call, argo. So, sense you simply never add STRb to AP, the weapon still does it's base AP for penetration. Makes sense.

8)

The war sword is not a finesse weapon. But, all I have is the non-atlantean copy of Conan and it may have changed.

Not in the chart, but read the description.

In the description it says
Any time the war sword is being weilded in one hand, it may not be used as a finess weapon or to make piercing attacks.

Also, it says nothing about being a finess weapon when used in two-hands.

Just to help with the conversation, I thought I would quote from Conan AE:

"Any time a war sword is being used in two hands, it may be used as a finesse weapon and to make piercing attacks."

This was probably added to clear up any confusion.

True. I guess it's merely implied in the first version. Thanks Shonuff.

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