OGL Ancients - Evasive vs. Defense Bonus

[shadowdragon]

I posted this in the rulesmaster section, however it was pointed out that it isn't really a rules question, so it might be better here.

Because armour decreases damage, it doesn't make characters harder to hit, a character's active defence in OGL Ancients remains extremely low even at high levels. Characters with evasive are a bit better off but are still very easy to hit, especially at mid to high levels when an NPC or creature has a very high attack bonus. In Unearthed Arcana (Wizards' big book of alternate D20 rules) there are rules for giving characters a defence bonus to AC (or active defence if used in OGL Ancients). I've only run a few games of OGL Ancients, so, for those who have played or run a lot of OGL Ancients; is evasive enough? Should the defence bonus rules from Unearthed Arcana be used in OGL Ancients games to balance active defence with opponents' attack bonus? As far as I can tell, if a character doesn't wear armour at higher levels, there's no way they can survive long in a fight. Even those that wear armour aren't very well off since they almost always get hit and the damage they take builds up quickly.

 

[Jack Steel]

I found the same problem in this game. Even the Warriors classes, they don't have any Dodge Bonus, only Shield bonus, that is very good because Shields add a huge bonus. However, OGL Ancients has a problem: those characters who don't belong to warrior / noble warrior, are very, very weak- hit point, BAB bonus, weapon proficiencies and the Evasive bonus (many with a +5 at 20th level... not very good, when at this level the weakest character probably attacks with at least +12).

I'm sure that it's made intentionaly for making them useless (except the Bard, who is better) in hand to hand combat. So if you want to give them a higher defense bonus, like in Conan (choose what you like). Or another option: every class can increase this bonus as the same rating of the Base Attack Bonus of the Witch (or the Mage in D&D): +1 every two levels. This is my easy solution, he he. You can give it to every class. This is what I do with my D&D campaign, but they begin with +2.
Everybody has the same Defense, but I don't care, it's for simplycity.

Just my opinion (I couldn't give you my opinion of UA, because I don't have it, but I have Star Wars which have cool rules- my inspiration in the matter of increasing Defense no matter Armour you wear)

 

[Anonymous]

While I have not had a chance to play OGL Ancients yet, I have read through it and noticed the same problem.

Any easy solution using the game mechanics 'as is' is to utilize the 'Combat Expertise' feat for the full +5 to Active Defense. While it will impact characters of 10th level or less considerably, after 10th level, it seems clearly worth it, since most characters of 10th level or higher will have Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, and higher Str bonus' to compensate for the -5 to BAB.

If anything, I would argue that the 'Combat Expertise' feat should apply to Shield Defense bonuses, too.

Yes combat oriented classes will be better at defending themselves, but shouldn't they be any way, really?

 

[Anonymous]

another easy solution is to add the character's base Reflex save to his/her Active & Shield Defenses. That will help reflect the reality that as you increase in experience, your defensive capabilities increase as well.

 

[Banesfinger]

Because armour decreases damage, it doesn't make characters harder to hit, a character's active defence in OGL Ancients remains extremely low even at high levels. Characters with evasive are a bit better off but are still very easy to hit, especially at mid to high levels when an NPC or creature has a very high attack bonus. In Unearthed Arcana ... there are rules for giving characters a defence bonus to AC (or active defence if used in OGL Ancients). I've only run a few games of OGL Ancients, so, for those who have played or run a lot of OGL Ancients; is evasive enough? ... As far as I can tell, if a character doesn't wear armour at higher levels, there's no way they can survive long in a fight. ...

All three systems mentioned (OGL Ancients, Conan, Unearthed Arcana) have a slightly different mechanic.

In Unearthed Arcana, the AC bonus ranges from +2 (Level-1) to +12 (level-20).

In Conan RPG, the 'defence bonus' ranges from +0 (level-1) to +15 (level-20).

In OGL Ancients, the mechnic is slightly more complex because most people have 3 defences for an attacker to get through:

A 'Passive Defence'. This is 10 + size modifier.
An 'Active Defence' (free action). This is 1d20 roll with a bonus generally +0 (level-1) to +7 (level-20) for non-combative classes (+0 for combat classes).

And Shield Defence (combative classes only) ranging from +1 (level-1) to +7 (level-20). However, most shields add +5 or greater to this number.

In conclusion, shadowdragon is correct, for non-combative classes in OGL Ancients, they have about 50% of the defences of their equals in the other systems. With shields, the combat classes are about equal with other systems.
However, because the OGL defence uses a d20+ defense (instead of just 10+ defence), the combats tend to be more random.

 

[storyteller]

Could be to allow the game to be used in a simulationist fashion w/o too much complaint. Seems like the character types are intended to fight each other in a realistic fashion (you rarely dodge a blow completely). Probably designed to encourage use of the cautery rules as well.

My view. I actually enjoy this game, and its system.