Not impressed with the sorcery tidbit

[Adept]

Apparently everything you need to become a sorcerer is a few weeks with a mentor, or finging a spellbook in a language you are able to read.

Blech. That's not very impressive. That's even easier than the rune magic. At least there you have to aquire some blood of the gods. A sorcerer apparently is a person who has taken the time to study a spell.

I'd think the "casting magic without runes or gods" bit would require years of study in magical theory and practise before the apprentice would be able to cast his/her first spell. Apparently not.

Blech. It also sounds like they are keeping very close to the boring sorcery model of RQ-3. Dry as dust. Didn't anybody notice the apprearance of Ars Magica or Shek-Pvar? It's infinitely more interesting to play a magician who can create his/her own spells, in addition to the creations of others. Even the old Realms of Sorcery supplement for Warhammer FRP had rules for such, and lot's of colourful spells.

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

Apparently everything you need to become a sorcerer is a few weeks with a mentor, or finging a spellbook in a language you are able to read.

Blech. That's not very impressive. That's even easier than the rune magic. At least there you have to aquire some blood of the gods. A sorcerer apparently is a person who has taken the time to study a spell.

I'd think the "casting magic without runes or gods" bit would require years of study in magical theory and practise before the apprentice would be able to cast his/her first spell. Apparently not.

Blech. It also sounds like they are keeping very close to the boring sorcery model of RQ-3. Dry as dust. Didn't anybody notice the apprearance of Ars Magica or Shek-Pvar? It's infinitely more interesting to play a magician who can create his/her own spells, in addition to the creations of others. Even the old Realms of Sorcery supplement for Warhammer FRP had rules for such, and lot's of colourful spells.

Sorcery is massively customisable in the new edition, which the full rules will reveal. Also, it might sound easy to learn on the surface, but the amount of research required to actually become a sorcerer competent in all areas isn't exactly small apples, trust me. That'll become clear soon enough.

The Sorcery rules are, incidentally, one of the aspects of the new edition I'm most impressed with. I playtested a whole bunch of magical fights between God Learners and Dragonspeakers for Magic of Glorantha, and they were fifty kinds of fun.

 

[SteveMND]

A sorcerer apparently is a person who has taken the time to study a spell.

Well, that is how sorcery was presented in the previous RQ, after all.

Sorcery in RQ was very antiseptic and very "dry" as you put it, but that was how it was intended. It's not learning the mysteries of the universe from the gods, the spirits or other cosmological facilities (look where it developed in Glorantha, for example). Rather, it's imposing your will on it.

So personally, I didn't have any problem with sorcery being 'dry' (so to speak).

That said, I was rather surprised at how almost identical the preview was of how RQ3 sorcery worked. I happened to like the concept behind RQ3 sorcery, and felt it had the potential to be extraordinarily powerful and flexible, but there were some... practical issues with it. I was kind of hoping we'd see some changes there to make it more 'user-freindly,' but so far, not really.

Of course, it's just one page, too, so here's hoping the later pages will expand and rework some stuff.

 

[Dr. Halflight]

Apparently everything you need to become a sorcerer is a few weeks with a mentor, or finging a spellbook in a language you are able to read.

Blech. That's not very impressive. That's even easier than the rune magic. At least there you have to aquire some blood of the gods. A sorcerer apparently is a person who has taken the time to study a spell.

Blech. It also sounds like they are keeping very close to the boring sorcery model of RQ-3. Dry as dust. Didn't anybody notice the apprearance of Ars Magica or Shek-Pvar? It's infinitely more interesting to play a magician who can create his/her own spells, in addition to the creations of others. Even the old Realms of Sorcery supplement for Warhammer FRP had rules for such, and lot's of colourful spells.

I've only been exposed to RuneQuest in the past from AH's 3rd Ed & its BRP iterations. Personally, I DON'T want it to take years for my Sorcerer to develop. Mongoose is releasing a generic fantasy ruleset with settings. We're free to "houserule" however we disagree with their design decisions AND with the OGL, we can even publish them. This bit seems to be overlooked, as I've seen several "I don't want to have to houserule" complaints.

This biggest revelation for me under the Sorcery Section was the part about Advanced Skills requiring 2 Improvement Rolls. I'd seen lots of people specualting Improvement rolls were gone. The truth is that most of us here are forming opinions on snippets of text. I already know I'm going to buy the Main Book, the Companion, & probably Glorantha. So far what I've seen of Glorantha hasn't done much for me, but I'm going to give it one last go.

Doc

 

[atgxtg]

Of course, it's just one page, too, so here's hoping the later pages will expand and rework some stuff.

Nah, the latter pages are all all blank pieces of quad-ruled graph paper with the heading "Notes".

 

[waiwode]

Nah, the latter pages are all all blank pieces of quad-ruled graph paper with the heading "Notes".

Now that's the kind of meaty rumour we can sink our teeth into.

Finally, magic described briefly, in a couple "concept" paragraphs, and a couple dozen lined pages for me to extrapolate on. This is absolutely the magic system I've been waiting for!

What?

atgxtg was joking? There's actual words on those pages? Well, obviously there's no pleasing everybody, but I can't help but be a little disappointed.

Doug.

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

Relax folks!

A few weeks study will only give you a few percentiles in the spell - hardly the stuff that competent Sorcerors are made of.

Plus, a colossal part of Sorcery was the way that the Sorcery Skills worked. We haven't seen that in MRQ yet, so let's not be too hasty to judge it by comparison to RQ3.

 

[Adept]

Relax folks!

A few weeks study will only give you a few percentiles in the spell - hardly the stuff that competent Sorcerors are made of.

That's not really what I was going on about. Sorcery is marketed as something difficult and powerful. "Relying on your own will and knowledge you you master the natural forces of the world".

And in practise? Learning a sorcery spell is easier than learning a rune magic spell. Anybody can do it, with no preparation, studying or training. Just pick up a book and a few weeks later you are a sorcerer.

Dry as dust, mundane and boring. Hardly the stuff of magic.

 

[andakitty]

Oh, I don't know about that. It looks like a good setup for finding lost arcane lore. You would have to be able to read. And being able to combine the spells could yield some very colorful and spectacular effects.

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

Relax folks!

A few weeks study will only give you a few percentiles in the spell - hardly the stuff that competent Sorcerors are made of.

That's not really what I was going on about. Sorcery is marketed as something difficult and powerful. "Relying on your own will and knowledge you you master the natural forces of the world".

And in practise? Learning a sorcery spell is easier than learning a rune magic spell. Anybody can do it, with no preparation, studying or training. Just pick up a book and a few weeks later you are a sorcerer.

Dry as dust, mundane and boring. Hardly the stuff of magic.

Yup.

At something like 5%.

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

Relax folks!

A few weeks study will only give you a few percentiles in the spell - hardly the stuff that competent Sorcerors are made of.

That's not really what I was going on about. Sorcery is marketed as something difficult and powerful. "Relying on your own will and knowledge you you master the natural forces of the world".

And in practise? Learning a sorcery spell is easier than learning a rune magic spell. Anybody can do it, with no preparation, studying or training. Just pick up a book and a few weeks later you are a sorcerer.

Dry as dust, mundane and boring. Hardly the stuff of magic.

Well, anyone should be able to to learn sorcery, given that it is a magic based on understanding of reality's nature, research and intelligence. That doesn't make it easy, however. The full rules (not this snippet) reflect that - it's no easy and quick investment.

I'm not here to be a Mongoose apologist. Even if I had the inclination, I've not got the time. However, you're jumping at shadows a little. The full rules, the possible manipulations and the effects of Sorcery will reveal all.

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

Dry as dust, mundane and boring. Hardly the stuff of magic.

That pretty much describes the way RQ sorcery is supposed to be.

 

[SteveMND]

And in practise? Learning a sorcery spell is easier than learning a rune magic spell. Anybody can do it, with no preparation, studying or training. Just pick up a book and a few weeks later you are a sorcerer.

Are we sure about that? I would imagine finding someone to teach you a specific sorcery spell (or finding a tome that contains it) could easily be just as -- if not more daunting -- than questing to find a specific rune.

 

[andakitty]

Or used to suppose to be, to mangle the language a little. In spite of some superficial resemblance to RQ3 I have a hunch we are looking at a whole new animal here. Especially with the Sorcery.

 

[andakitty]

Steve, that's what I meant by 'lost arcana'. I don't know about the rest of you, but I see all sorts of possibilities with this, the way they are setting it up.

 

[SteveMND]

True, true. Heck, in theory, you could fine a rune literally anywhere.

Compare that to sorcery. I kind of doubt that anyone is likely to just wander across a spontaneously generated copy of De Vermis Mysteriis out in the Uncharted Wastes...

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

I think there might be a bit too much being read into what is - after all - a mere one page introduction to Sorcery. We don't even know how Advanced Skills really work yet. We have nothing on Students or Apprenticeships, or general availability of scrolls to study from.

Think about it. In RQ2 anybody could walk into any temple of any cult they were on reasonably good terms with, and come out after a week with some Battle Magic.

RQ3 allowed for learning sorcery spells through research.

If you use Rune Magic in MRQ you only need the Runecasting skill, which will give you an equal % in all spells.

If you use Sorcery in MRQ, each spell must be learned individually.

So while it's easy enough to be a piss-poor sorceror (assuming that there aren't any Apprenticeship rules which we haven't seen yet), a sorceror with, say, 5 spells will have to put in a hell of a lot more work than a Runecaster with 5 spells in order to get to the same level of skill.

Like I said, relax.

 

[andakitty]

I agree. Yes, you can find a beat up old grimoire just like you find the runes. But...aside from having to learn each spell separately you will have to be literate in the language the grimoire is written in. No, it is far to early to assume something like 'this is RQ3 all over again' and give up on it. Too many possibilities here.

 

[atgxtg]

If you use Rune Magic in MRQ you only need the Runecasting skill, which will give you an equal % in all spells.

If you use Sorcery in MRQ, each spell must be learned individually.

So while it's easy enough to be a piss-poor sorceror (assuming that there aren't any Apprenticeship rules which we haven't seen yet), a sorceror with, say, 5 spells will have to put in a hell of a lot more work than a Runecaster with 5 spells in order to get to the same level of skill.

Like I said, relax.

Easier maybe. Same level of skill, sure. Same effect? Who knows? We really don't know how powerful the new rune magic is. In RQ3 a scoer could usally get a lot more power out of his spells than a spirit magican could.

THe whole" scarity of runes" thing would seem to hint that it might be easier for a socrceror to lean five spells than for a runecaster to get five runes. Some can teach you sorcery, but I don't think someone can teach a rune.

 

[Adept]

Yup.

At something like 5%.

That does not help. Spells opening to 5% and every one of them having to be developed as a separate skill (as hard as pottery making, or fencing) isn't going to work either.

I've played a few RQ-3 sorcerers in my time, and I can't say the memories are all that fond. Now, if the sorcdery spells would open to a decent skill level (something like 40+), and be quick and easy to train that would help. The manipulation skills could be difficult skills, and start at low levels.

I'm pretty sure the sorcery rules will a lot of GM work to fix