Non-Noble SOC Stat

[alex_greene]

I've been thinking about the Social Standing characteristic, and the alternative SOC in the Traveller Companion 2024 Update. It just occurred to me that SOC could stand for "Social Acumen," and represent something more personal than a mere noble rank.
SOC, for Social Acumen, can represent emotional intelligence, rapport, and empathy. This SOC does not depend on a title, and represents a person whose ability to understand social situations could put them in a better position to influence people, conduct diplomacy, and even work with animals (the Animals skills).
This SOC DM can be used successfully for the following skills - Animals (all), Art (performance), Broker, Carouse, Deception, Diplomat, Gambler, Investigate (interrogation), Language (various), Leadership, Persuade, Steward, Stealth (disguise), Streetwise, Tactics.

 

[Vormaerin]

That's pretty much how it actually functions now. In ye elder days, SOC gave variable modifiers depending on the situation. So high SOC was good in some places, low SOC in others. But nowadays it is a straight benefit whenever it applies (barring house rules).

You can use it in Admin, Advocate, Broker, Carouse, Deception, Leadership, Persuade, and Steward in the skill description examples already. Apparently, in the Third Imperium, all nobles have expert social skills and all peasants just sort of drool when confronted with a conversation

I don't rename it, but essentially SOC is Charm in my game and nobility is not a stat. No one in my campaign is a titled noble out of chargen, though knighthoods are possible results.

 

[alex_greene]

That's pretty much how it actually functions now. In ye elder days, SOC gave variable modifiers depending on the situation. So high SOC was good in some places, low SOC in others. But nowadays it is a straight benefit whenever it applies (barring house rules).

You can use it in Admin, Advocate, Broker, Carouse, Deception, Leadership, Persuade, and Steward in the skill description examples already. Apparently, in the Third Imperium, all nobles have expert social skills and all peasants just sort of drool when confronted with a conversation

I don't rename it, but essentially SOC is Charm in my game and nobility is not a stat. No one in my campaign is a titled noble out of chargen, though knighthoods are possible results.

Good point. Titles become something bestowed upon a character. The Life Events tables could include an entry which says something like "You turn out to be a bastard scion of some Noble house. You are entitled to the rank of Knight, and if you wish to attempt the Noble career in chargen, it is automatically granted to you." No need to raise SOC, if SOC measures empathy. As a matter of fact, it might be possible to lose SOC and lose empathy with the world and your subordinates, the higher your Noble rank gets.

 

[Jame Rowe]

This is why I usually link Int or Edu to these skills more than Soc.
But that's the neat thing; the state needed can vary. Trying to use Advocate on a Baron? Totally Soc. On a merchant? Edu. On the Lady who rules Theev? Int - you have to be smart just to survive!

 

[alex_greene]

This is why I usually link Int or Edu to these skills more than Soc.
But that's the neat thing; the state needed can vary. Trying to use Advocate on a Baron? Totally Soc. On a merchant? Edu. On the Lady who rules Theev? Int - you have to be smart just to survive!

Using INT or EDU for a social skill like Carousing sounds a bit too much like sophontsplaining. SOC means you're more socially aware, maybe have a repertoire of anecdotes and punchlines - "Okay, so afterwards, the Captain comes up to me, covered in green paint, and says, and I swear this is true, "I was aiming for his head!""

 

[CordwainerFish]

If you're trying to drink someone under the table, Carousing+END seems right.

 

[Vormaerin]

How and why you are using the skill will determine the appropriate stat generally. That said, just from a game design POV, Int & Edu already have a large share of the skill tasking. They don't really need more weight. STR and SOC (If defined as status, not acumen) are the stats that have underused for skill purposes. THough, as I mentioned, there's a tendency already in the system to use SOC for general social ability despite its definition being status related.

 

[NOLATrav]

But SOC as a status indicator is only for the Third Imperium, no? Other races within the 3I already use different paradigms (Vargr Charisma and Droyne Caste). Does the Julian Protectorate use the 3I construct of SOC = Noble rank? I don’t have any of the Solomani books, seems weird they would equate it to a feudalistic hierarchy of nobility. Party standing perhaps?

Point being, mechanically it can be as robust as DEX or INT. No reason it can’t be social acumen AND standing within a hierarchy. Just depends where you’re swinging that acumen around…

There is a rule in T5 I really like. If the roll calls for CHA (because you’re in a Vargr enclave) but you have SOC (because you‘re an Imperial human) your effective CHA is your SOC / 2. And vice versa. I think Mongoose 2e has made it a flat DM-2 but I like the granularity of the T5 version. It’s a simple way to model varying social structures and norms. Could be useful within a society too, where the high SOC Noble is minimized in the streets and the regular SOC Traveller is even further minimized in the Court.

 

[Vormaerin]

I think that was actually the point of this thread? That SOC being used as "Social status" instead of "social acumen" is problematic. The vast majority of examples of SOC use in the Mongoose Traveller rules are for social skill, not social status. Or would work equally well if it was social adroitness rather than status in the few cases where it might actually reflect status.

Social Status is a legacy from Classic Traveller that got broken by the changed rules in Megatraveller and beyond. In Classic Traveller, a high SOC stat would be a penalty in some situations, while a low SOC stat might give you a bonus in such situations. With the change to universal task resolution and fixed stat modifiers, SOC becomes disconnected from its original intent.

Unless your intent is some classist fantasy where peasants are diffident oafs and all nobles are suave and assertive.

 

[alex_greene]

Someone on one of the Traveller Facebook fora came up with the idea that a character could only hold a Noble rank if they are accepted into the Noble career choice during chargen. Everybody's SOC just means Social Acumen. Maybe tweak the Qualification roll, which doesn't actually make any sense as written if you look at it.

 

[Condottiere]

In theory, the odds of character generation creating a titled noble should be extremely low, going by how I understand the Third Imperium works.

I'd say by this stage, you could only get ennobled if you do a great service for the Imperium, like winning a decisive battle, kissing the Emperor's ass, developing an anti matter bomb, or integrating a new sector into the Imperium.

If you inherited it, you'd be expected to supervise your fief.

You can be born into a noble family, and it's possible that you can have a courtesy title.

 

[Vormaerin]

Someone on one of the Traveller Facebook fora came up with the idea that a character could only hold a Noble rank if they are accepted into the Noble career choice during chargen. Everybody's SOC just means Social Acumen. Maybe tweak the Qualification roll, which doesn't actually make any sense as written if you look at it.

That's what I've always done, more or less. High rank in certain careers can also give knighthoods to PCs in my campaign. But the actual SOC stat may as well be the Charm stat mentioned in the companion.

 

[Vormaerin]

In theory, the odds of character generation creating a titled noble should be extremely low, going by how I understand the Third Imperium works.

I'd say by this stage, you could only get ennobled if you do a great service for the Imperium, like winning a decisive battle, kissing the Emperor's ass, developing an anti matter bomb, or integrating a new sector into the Imperium.

If you inherited it, you'd be expected to supervise your fief.

You can be born into a noble family, and it's possible that you can have a courtesy title.

In my campaign, Titles go with jobs. Baron Feri is a title associated with the Imperial Civil Service (Starport Authority) job of Starport Administrator of the starport of Feri. And once you stop having that job, you stop having the title. You are still Lord Fauntleroy, but you are not Baron Fauntleroy.
You might say "Lord Fauntleroy, formerly Baron Feri" in the same way we sometimes say "James Baker, former Secretary of State".

Imperial fiefs are megacorporate stock holdings in my campaign. Nobody wants Imperial Nobles to be getting invested in a particular planet. That defeats the whole point of having an "Imperial" aristocracy to bind the trade cartel together.

 

[Condottiere]

Depends on how you would see the Imperium functioning.

The Imperium aristocracy would have usually ten plus on Social Standing, without necessarily having a title, courtesy or otherwise.

Through family or career connections, they would have access to Imperium power brokers, if they aren't that themselves.

 

[Condottiere]

Job titles would be more viceroys, governor general, and regent.

 

[Vormaerin]

Depends on how you would see the Imperium functioning.

The Imperium aristocracy would have usually ten plus on Social Standing, without necessarily having a title, courtesy or otherwise.

Through family or career connections, they would have access to Imperium power brokers, if they aren't that themselves.

Yes, Imperial aristocrats are aristocrats. But "I'm an aristocrat" is not a game stat, imho. And Strephon isn't better at carousing because he's Soc 17 or whatever he is. But the child of Lord Fautleroy, former Baron Feri in my campaign is just another Lord Fauntleroy. Unless they get a job that has a title attached to it.

Titles like Viceroy and Governor General assume that you are actually governing. Which the Imperium absolutely does not do, imho. Planetary governments govern. The Imperium is a trade cartel and everything it does advances trade. It stops piracy, it explores new places, it fights off other space nations, it runs starports. It doesn't have police or judiciary. It just throws annoying people into prisons without trial and then pretends they just went missing. If they need enforcement of some rule, there's Imperial Marines.

 

[Condottiere]

The smart way to govern is without overt military intervention.

That costs money and political capital.

 

[alex_greene]

The smart way to govern is without overt military intervention.

That costs money and political capital.

That's making a big assumption about the intelligence of the nobility.

 

[Condottiere]

That's why Humphrey Appleby got knighted.

 

[alex_greene]

Matter of fact, detaching SOC from nobility allows for a much more realistic portrayal of the nobility. High Social Awareness or Social Acumen, rather than Social Standing, allows for the creation of a Noble version of Lt Gorman: full of himself, highly disciplined, intellectual, but ineffectual at actually leading people because he hasn't got a clur about how people in a team think.
High INT and high EDU people can sometimes come across as cold, even brutal in their clinical efficiency. SOC as Social Intelligence can mean a physician with a highly disarming bedside manner, a Diplomat, or a compassionate figure, a Great Soul and peacemaker.
I'm kind of sick of living in a mechanised, warlike Traveller universe.