New Playtest Pack V1.2

[Da Boss]

stealth?

 

[Tolwyn]

Mhm, IMO the rule will be greatly abused in tournaments. It's easier for Vree palyers to decrew a ship rather then destroy it

 

[Clanger]

Make the Vree Extraction Beam slow loading. Or make it the only weapon it can fire that turn.

 

[Burger]

It would be fine, if it were PL dependent... which the playtesters are already pushing for

 

[Da Boss]

Probably to make it as difficult as possible without making it physically impossible. As it is, the ability could be rather nasty, especially against White Stars, most especially since Dodge doesn't work against it and White Stars don't have the "big wing" defence.

I'd like a specific list of what defences do not work against it - at the moment the rule is somewhat vague:

Defences such as Interceptors, Dodge and Gravitic Energy Grids will do nothing to stop this attack!

Does that literally mean that no defence will work, that only those three defences don't work, or that there are some other unspecified defences which don't work either? What about adaptive armour?

Personally I woudl have made it so that the following defences all work

Dodge, Stealth, Shields, GEG but Interceptors and Adaptive Armour does not............

I was (being mssively bias) happy with my original version as it was less effective and more of a flavour/fun addition..............and followed standard rules......


Extraction Beams
The Vree are able to abduct individuals or even small groups by using extraction beams – these are not designed for use in combat but on occasion they have been used in battle and have proved suprisingly effective. Extraction Beams may only be used against ships or stations with the Immobile trait, that are Running Adrift or have not moved during the turn in which the Extraction Beam is used. These weapons do not inflict damage or criticals, but cause crew loss as normal. Extraction Beams do not affect the Shadows, Vorlons or the Ancients in any way and do not affect ships with operating Shields or GEGs. Any Vree ship may exchange its Antimatter Cannon for Extraction Beams (these can also be reverted back to Antimatter Cannons in Campaigns in the Repairs and Reinforcements phase of the campaign turn).

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Extraction Beam 12 T Equal to the AD of the Antimatter Cannons removed Mini-Beam, Precise

 

[Foxmeister]

Yeah thats the line I meant foxy. Though, that could have been G'Kar's pride...
It's 3x18 Walkabout if anyone has DVDs handy.

Indeed. I suppose what he really meant to say was:

G'Kar: "Only a Narn Heavy Cruiser has that sort of firepower, except for, well, just about anything else you can lay your hands on..... like this spoon here!"



Regards,

Dave

 

[Foxmeister]

Yeah thats the line I meant foxy. Though, that could have been G'Kar's pride...
It's 3x18 Walkabout if anyone has DVDs handy.

I downloaded the episode and when Sheridan asked for ships to escort the White Star to assist in the destruction of the Shadow vessel, G'Kar said:

"Only the G'Tok is capable of a mission of this nature"

Now, G'Kar could be saying this in the context of the Narn fleet as a whole - i.e. "In the entire Narn fleet, only the G'Tok is capable of a mission of this nature", but given that the Narn fleet doesn't really exist at this point in the show this seems unlikely, so it is probable (IMHO anyway) that he is referring to ships in general.


Regards,

Dave

 

[Burger]

Yep, I'll go with that - plus none of the others chimed in, like Sheridan saying "G'Tok? Their laser is a piece of cr@p, I'll go ask the Brakiri for an Avioki or the Drazi for a Stormfalcon, instead" or Delenn saying "An excellent plan G'Kar, with only two minor flaws..."

 

[Foxmeister]

How does this fit?

Sheridan: "What we need is a ship that can sit ineffectually in front of the Shadow vessel and get sliced in half whilst the White Star nips round the back and has at it from behind...."

G'Kar: "Only the G'Tok is capable of a mission of this nature"

Hmmmm... works well!

Regards,

Dave

 

[AdrianH]

If Sheridan had announced that he was going to ask for a Stormfalcon then Delenn would have said "An excellent plan with only two flaws. One, the Drazi don't have any Stormfalcons to spare. Two, the Drazi don't have any Stormfalcons at all - you've been playing games too much and become too accustomed to using ships which don't exist".

Either the G'Tok was the Narn's last surviving heavy cruiser, or it had more firepower than the average G'Quan. Maybe it was a G'Quan variant whose laser wasn't underpowered.

 

[Tolwyn]

Or it was a monday product :wink:

 

[Da Boss]

Yeah thats the line I meant foxy. Though, that could have been G'Kar's pride...
It's 3x18 Walkabout if anyone has DVDs handy.

Indeed. I suppose what he really meant to say was:

G'Kar: "Only a Narn Heavy Cruiser has that sort of firepower, except for, well, just about anything else you can lay your hands on..... like this spoon here!"



Regards,

Dave

Guards kill that Narn - he has a Spoon

 

[Dave G]

I expect 2" was chosen to stop 27 Patrol level Vree ships from all getting in range of one Sharlin, and completely decrewing it in one turn?

A better way of doing that would be:
1) Each ship can only be targetted once per turn by this special action.
If an attempt is made to target the same ship for a second time then there is a "spacial resonance/equipment feedback loop/cosmic f**t" (pick one from three) leading to a catastrophic explosion on the Vree ship, which takes 2D6 hull and crew damage.
OR
2) Any attempt to target a ship more than once in the same turn with the "Initiate Extraction" special action leads to diminishing returns. On a D6 throw of 1-3 no extra crew are extracted, and on 4-6 one extra crew is taken.

 

[AdrianH]

Or simply make it that the extraction beam gets confused if too many ships are in range - if more than one Vree ship goes after the same target, each "Initiate Extraction!" attempt has an equal chance of hitting the target or each of the Vree ships. If 27 Xorrs go after 1 Sharlin, most of them will be decrewing each other.

I'd still like the ability to be difficult to use. Increase the range to 4" so you don't need to risk banging models together, make it CQ at least 8+ rather than automatic, and reduce it to PL based similar to the Shadows' Mind Scream. Maybe:
Patrol/Skirmish - 1
Raid/Battle - 2
War - 1D6

Dodge, Stealth and maybe Shields should work. GEG should not, if the above reduction is used, or GEG will make it useless. Interceptors don't work (it's a beam). Adaptive armour is negotiable, depending on how dangerous "Initiate Extraction!" proves against White Stars.

And if a ship which lost crew manages to board a Vree ship which has abducted some crew, it gets its crew back.

 

[CZuschlag]

With the low Hull values on the Drakh (4-5), Antimatter Shredders already do an outsized amount of damage. The Vree don't need extraction beams to beat the Drakh, they're advantaged enough as it is! GEG should apply.

Remember, we want to add an interesting feature to all the races, not a major weapon system.

 

[CZuschlag]

Things that I think really need testing - the Centauri Hunting pack (all over again), the Vree, and the new White Star is spades.

Just some requests for playtests -
Try two identical games, one with the origanal WS, one with the new one, so we can see how different it is.

I'd like to see the WS played against the Centauri, the pak, and something with short ranged secondaries (Abbai, Narn, Early EA, Dilgar).

Reasonable and balanced fleets: dont play a 15 ship swarm fleet against 5 WS, because that will prove nothing.

On the other hand, showing that something new is broken by using a particular fleet is a good thing. (eg we know Vree abduction will be good against the ISA, but if you can build a Vree fleet that can abduct the crew of an entire Gaim fleet, you will have proved it is broken).

Play Vree against ISA with abduction, play them without abduction. To see how much of a whitewash it is. Do the same against a fleet where crew matters less.

If you want to try and eliminate radical results from your playtests, use Burger's beam system and reroll 6,5 and 6,6 crits.

And of course, try and break the station rules by building monstrosities.

How are we doing on this early request? Status?

 

[Grunvald]

With luck Stations are being revised!

But work still needed!

They are not as big when 1.2 was realeased so we'll see what becomes of them.

 

[Greg Smith]

There have been a few tests here:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=37799

Da Boss and Clanger did a Drakh vs ISA space station test.

Clanger and I are planning an ISA vs Vree and/or pak'ma'ra this week.

 

[CZuschlag]

Ripple and I are also interested in ISA vs. Vree. We think forcing the Whitestar into Antimatter Shredder range is a very important change.

After that, we want to see what evil we can do with Kutai, a Maximus or two, and the Hunting Pack rule against Vree, who can't finesse arcs, because, well, it's all T arc in the first place.

Then, likely back to the White Star.

 

[Greg Smith]

Please do. I believe that the White Star needs a lot of playtesting - more than we three playtesters can give it.