Neutered Shadows?

[locarno24]

And - because a statement like that is always the better for evidence:

Several pages of Humbaba's shadows seriously prodding buttock in the VASSAL campaign.

(even the one loss so far was far from one-sided, the shadows blowing away 3/4 of the casualties they took)

 

[Ripple]

I appreciate the response on the whitestar. Seems strange there are still one die beams in the game.

The playtest pack version of the whitestar was fine. It paid for it's new reliability and power by being boresighted. I never bought the argument that the whitestars could not be boresighted as it was too restrictive. Either being a boresighted fleet is too restrictive or it isn't, you can't have it both ways. Given the Drazi were not similarly fixed I find the whole thing offensive.

I've never bought into the idea that certain fleets should just be better than average and others intentionally weaker as 'a challenge'. To me that is a failure of the game design, and creates false impressions of the abilities of the players. But eh, I'm not the one in charge...

Ripple

 

[Triggy]

I appreciate the response on the whitestar. Seems strange there are still one die beams in the game.

The playtest pack version of the whitestar was fine. It paid for it's new reliability and power by being boresighted. I never bought the argument that the whitestars could not be boresighted as it was too restrictive. Either being a boresighted fleet is too restrictive or it isn't, you can't have it both ways. Given the Drazi were not similarly fixed I find the whole thing offensive.

I've never bought into the idea that certain fleets should just be better than average and others intentionally weaker as 'a challenge'. To me that is a failure of the game design, and creates false impressions of the abilities of the players. But eh, I'm not the one in charge...

Ripple

Heh, I was a leading voice in favour of a boresighted White Star as a balancing factor but most of the others didn't think it "felt" right on the table. Oh well, c'est la vie.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

Restrictive? The more maneuverable a ship is, the less of an issue it is to have boresight weapons... and the White Star is one of the most maneuverable ships out there!

 

[Greg Smith]

The problem was never the maneuverability of White Stars it was the initiative sinking required to line up a shot on the most viable targets. In a game against the Centauri, the Whitesatrs would wind up chasing Havens while the bigger ships maneuvered in the White Star's side arcs.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

White Stars can't fire into their side arcs anyway, so no difference there, and init sinking White Stars would also still be free to use their secondary weapons. Besides, wasn't part of how White Stars meant to be used that they would alternate in attacking and retreating?

 

[Ripple]

Right... so the reason the whitestar fleet isn't bore sighted is the same reason the Drazi can't fight races who out sink them...but that's not important right now cause their supposed to be a joke race.

The whitestars just had to buy some bluestars, but oh wait we don't see them do that in the show. Oh wait there aren't small ships in the show, folks actually show up with all big ships. Why? Because they aren't ham strung by a stupid rule called boresight which requires you target to have moved before you have. At least against anything that isn't lumbering. At least against lumbering you can line up on its front or back bore and force a bore shot now.

I'm sorry but the reason for the last minute change was just crap, and shows how weak the play test structure really is. You take a really strong fleet and make it better, but give it a draw back too, then you pull off the draw back at the last minute. Where is your balance now... in the trash can. The ISA have all the benefits of the initiative system, but can't be forced to deal with any of the downsides like fleet choice.

But the problem isn't with Haven's being able to sink in the first place, or bresight being stupid for not being able to track a ship directly in front of you....nope...all that's fine...Drazi can't play above skimish level ships most days...and should lose vs anyone with a two-fer available... bah... their fine... whitestar having trouble? ....quick change it.

Sorry, but this change was just offensive.

Even if Triggy is right at calling it at 25% increase...that is a huge boost to a ship that rarely lost, and gave nothing back. You couldn't get much more blatantly unfair.

Ripple

 

[Target]

We have playing no slow loading on Solar cannons at the moment, so far not unbalanced but we have only been playing small games so no huge amounts of them but then they are hull 4 & 12 hits with 5+ dodge.
It helps the bigger ships more or thats what we are hoping.
The Solarhawk without slow loading is not lot better than a Olympus Gunship or Laser Tethys ( 4 to 1 Solarhawk so probably is better).

 

[Ripple]

True enough, I suppose I am a bit rabid on the subject. I just don't believe that the league gets it's due as individuals in many cases and that they are determined to make certain races easier/harder than others without putting the warning sticker on. Goes back to point values and whether they have any meaning.

Interesting idea on the solar canon, but not sure it wouldn't be too much. The poor Pak got just destroyed last week by a mixed Drazi/Abbai fleet. Almost all the damage was tossed out by the heavy beams on the drazi.

ripple

 

[ShopKeepJon]

The poor Pak got just destroyed last week by a mixed Drazi/Abbai fleet. Almost all the damage was tossed out by the heavy beams on the drazi.

ripple

Did the Abbai do anything special in the fight or were they just very resilient initiative sinks?

ShopKeepJon

 

[Ripple]

Sadly no, the Abbai were simply initiative sinks. Even the survival of the Bimith can be put down to more the poor rolling of my opponent than it's toughness. The Drazi even scored more crits due to more beam hits.

I even commented at the time if I had replaced all my Milani's with Darkhawks I would have done considerably better.

I also looked at if the rolls were reversed and Dave had the big dice whether I could have weathered it better than he did, and the answer was no, and I might have done worse due to the lack of redundancy.

Shields just don't add enough survivability. It does't stop hits (and as most of the ships got smaller to compensate for having shields doesn't even add damage) it just changes all hits into 'solid hits'. So you cancel out part of your crit savings by no bulkheads. Going from interceptors to shields was a net loss for the Abbai below raid, the fact that the Abbai also lost maneuverability and AD just makes them a hard fleet to do much with now.

Mainly I hear the old T'Loth argument. It's a great ship because it endures! Except that this is a game of huge damage roll ups and offense stacking defense not. No matter how tough, if you can't deal it out you die, and now you die much quicker.

Ripple